QA/Meetings/20071213

wwoods	Time for the Fedora QA meeting. Whee!	<a href="#t10:00" class="time">10:00</a>
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | startup		<a href="#t10:01" class="time">10:01</a>
wwoods	f13 Lovechild mether rdieter nirik: ping	<a href="#t10:03" class="time">10:03</a>
rdieter	yo	<a href="#t10:04" class="time">10:04</a>
wwoods	howdy.	<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
wwoods	so I don't have anything pressing on the agenda	<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
wwoods	f13: what was it we were going to discuss?	<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
wwoods	anyway. first, tools stuff	<a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a>
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | tools		<a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a>
wwoods	jlaska has been packaging up SNAKE (<a href="http://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/snake">http://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/snake</a>) and working on the docs and such	<a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a>
wwoods	I've submitted python-bugzilla for review, and it was just approved, so that'll also be available shortly	<a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a>
wwoods	(<a href="http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/python-bugzilla">http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/python-bugzilla</a>)	<a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a>
wwoods	those two packages are used by the rawhide dashboard page (<a href="http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html,">http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html,</a> probably moving soon)	<a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a>
wwoods	but soon we should have at least *some* automagic testing of rawhide trees	<a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a>
wwoods	yay for that!	<a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a>
wwoods	Oh. Bug triage sucks - and will continue to suck unless we have better tools and a point system or something to help motivate people	<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
wwoods	but I've been talking with ldimaggi_ for a while about QA stuff	<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
ldimaggi_	wwoods, Good Morning everyone!	<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
ldimaggi_	glad to be here...	<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoods	right now my opinion is that making sure rawhide / updates are solid is more valuable	<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoods	than making triage easier/funner. once a bug is filed, it's already out the door	<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoods	it'd be better to keep a lot of bugs from getting out the door first	<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoods	which will make triaging easier	<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoods	so, some fairly simple automated testing is in order for fedora updates and rawhide	<a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a>
wwoods	so that's what I'm working on.	<a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a>
poelcat	wwoods: what kind of tools are you thinking would make triage better?	<a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a>
wwoods	well, infrastructure stuff to keep track of who's doing what, who's doing a good job. scorekeeping stuff to make things interesting	<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
wwoods	(and let us give credit to the best of the bug triagers)	<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
poelcat	wwoods: could borrow such things from another project?	<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
wwoods	It'd be nice to have a client-side tool that talked to bugzilla/bodhi/koji/pkgdb	<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
wwoods	poelcat: depends on how we want it implemented	<a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a>
wwoods	at this point we *can* use the GNOME stuff if we're willing to put scripts on BZ itself	<a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a>
wwoods	(previously we couldn't use their pointkeeping system 'cuz it used mysql-specific stuff)	<a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a>
wwoods	I'd probably want to clean it up so it's a nice modular plugin (and was easier to configure weights for various actions)	<a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a>
wwoods	and have it able to send data elsewhere, so if we do similar scorekeeping in bodhi/koji/etc we can gather all that data in one central place	<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoods	but, again, that's stuff I want to do *after* getting some smoketesting in place	<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoods	unless I find someone who's willing to spearhead the effort themselves	<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoods	but yes - scorekeeping and a cool gtk-based bug searching/triaging app	<a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a>
wwoods	would be awesome.	<a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a>
wwoods	anyway, there was something about bugzilla policy that f13 wanted to discuss, but I don't think he's here	<a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a>
wwoods	so that discussion will be moved to -test-list (and/or -devel-list)	<a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a>
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | misc.		<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
wwoods	oh, one other thing. I'm seeing more and more audio bugs where the suggested solution is "remove pulseaudio"	<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
wwoods	which kinda sucks.	<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
wwoods	In theory, PA improvements were on the schedule for F9 to better integrate it with the system	<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
rdieter	in fairness, it's a temporary workaround oftentimes, but the fundamental issues should still be addressed.	<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
wwoods	right	<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
wwoods	All people *really* need to do is remove alsa-plugins-pulseaudio and PA will magically stop being the default.	<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
wwoods	but we have to keep an eye out for bugs about this junk and make sure Lennart addresses the big ones	<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
wwoods	rdieter: how's KDE4 stuff going?	<a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a>
rdieter	wwoods: rawhide import is pretty much done.	<a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a>
rdieter	wwoods: now we need to actually start using it, and testing it out, polishing, etc...	<a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a>
wwoods	right on. good to hear!	<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
rdieter	and dealing with a few pkgs here and there that still contain kde(3) deps, that are now awol. :)	<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
wwoods	Are there likely to be any features in F9 that will change major desktop behaviors (like PA did) that we need to keep an eye out for?	<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
wwoods	I have a feeling PolicyKit could prove slightly disruptive for non-GNOME/KDE envs	<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
wwoods	anyway, that's something to keep in the backs of your heads	<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
wwoods	that's all. Any other business to discuss?	<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
rdieter	wwoods: I forget, is another "bug day" coming soon?	<a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a>
wwoods	There isn't one planned right now	<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
rdieter	ok	<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
wwoods	I was kind of disheartened - spent an entire 8-hour day working on it and I closed maybe 10 bugs	<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
wwoods	and got into some fierce arguments	<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
rdieter	hee, if it makes you feel better, a closed a whole load of old kde ones...	<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
wwoods	that's good!	<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
wwoods	Right now I'm not convinced that Bug Days are a good use of my time.	<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
rdieter	if more folks don't show up to participate, you're prob right	<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
wwoods	with more people (and once we've got some smoketest stuff going to catch the obvious stuff earlier) it would probably be very useful	<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
wwoods	but I think we have bigger problems	<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
wwoods	like broken rawhide and broken updates	<a href="#t10:36" class="time">10:36</a>
wwoods	if someone would like to plan a Bug Day, or wants to request a Bug Day to help triage a particular set of bugs	<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
wwoods	I'd be totally behind that	<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
jeremy	wwoods: I'm hoping to have a live image for testing a few installer related things by the first of next week	<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
wwoods	oh nice.	<a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a>
wwoods	someday we need to figure out a good way of running automated tests on newly-produced live images	<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
wwoods	kvm's probably the easiest way though	<a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a>
jeremy	you could pretty easily do boot it, get a screenshot to make sure the desktop came up	<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
jeremy	more than that becomes tricky	<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
wwoods	possibly we'll want some way of injecting commands from the boot line, like kickstart	<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
wwoods	runscript=[url]	<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
wwoods	or similar	<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
jeremy	how do you plan on injecting commands into the bootloader, though?	<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
wwoods	pull the kernel/initrd/squashfs off the image and boot it from system GRUB?	<a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a>
jeremy	you've now managed to avoid testing a lot of the livecd specific bits	<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoods	heh	<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoods	true. :/	<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoods	well, somethin' to think about. I don't have an answer right now.	<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
wwoods	let me know when you've got images, though	<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
wwoods	everyone loves a livecd	<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
jeremy	well, live-just-more-than-a-cd right now, but yeah	<a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a>
wwoods	liveimage	<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
jeremy	(some stupid deps have appeared... filed bugs last week about them)	<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
wwoods	livethingy	<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
* rdieter likes livethingy		<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
wwoods	livecd, livedvd, liveusb, liveipod.. nah. just call it "livethingy"	<a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a>
wwoods	okay, anything else?	<a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a>
jeremy	liveipod is hard -- current ones are 2048 byte sectors which our bootloaders don't deal with	<a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a>
wwoods	really? bogus.	<a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a>
wwoods	stupid PC BIOSes caring about "sectors"	<a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a>
wwoods	okay, let's call this done. Thanks for your time, folks.	<a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a>

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.3 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!