From Fedora Project Wiki
| wwoods | Time for the Fedora QA meeting. Whee! | <a href="#t10:00" class="time">10:00</a> |
|---|---|---|
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | startup | <a href="#t10:01" class="time">10:01</a> | |
| wwoods | f13 Lovechild mether rdieter nirik: ping | <a href="#t10:03" class="time">10:03</a> |
| rdieter | yo | <a href="#t10:04" class="time">10:04</a> |
| wwoods | howdy. | <a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a> |
| wwoods | so I don't have anything pressing on the agenda | <a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a> |
| wwoods | f13: what was it we were going to discuss? | <a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a> |
| wwoods | anyway. first, tools stuff | <a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a> |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | tools | <a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a> | |
| wwoods | jlaska has been packaging up SNAKE (<a href="http://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/snake">http://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/snake</a>) and working on the docs and such | <a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a> |
| wwoods | I've submitted python-bugzilla for review, and it was just approved, so that'll also be available shortly | <a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a> |
| wwoods | (<a href="http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/python-bugzilla">http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/python-bugzilla</a>) | <a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a> |
| wwoods | those two packages are used by the rawhide dashboard page (<a href="http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html,">http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html,</a> probably moving soon) | <a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a> |
| wwoods | but soon we should have at least *some* automagic testing of rawhide trees | <a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a> |
| wwoods | yay for that! | <a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a> |
| wwoods | Oh. Bug triage sucks - and will continue to suck unless we have better tools and a point system or something to help motivate people | <a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a> |
| wwoods | but I've been talking with ldimaggi_ for a while about QA stuff | <a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a> |
| ldimaggi_ | wwoods, Good Morning everyone! | <a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a> |
| ldimaggi_ | glad to be here... | <a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a> |
| wwoods | right now my opinion is that making sure rawhide / updates are solid is more valuable | <a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a> |
| wwoods | than making triage easier/funner. once a bug is filed, it's already out the door | <a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a> |
| wwoods | it'd be better to keep a lot of bugs from getting out the door first | <a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a> |
| wwoods | which will make triaging easier | <a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a> |
| wwoods | so, some fairly simple automated testing is in order for fedora updates and rawhide | <a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a> |
| wwoods | so that's what I'm working on. | <a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a> |
| poelcat | wwoods: what kind of tools are you thinking would make triage better? | <a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a> |
| wwoods | well, infrastructure stuff to keep track of who's doing what, who's doing a good job. scorekeeping stuff to make things interesting | <a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a> |
| wwoods | (and let us give credit to the best of the bug triagers) | <a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a> |
| poelcat | wwoods: could borrow such things from another project? | <a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a> |
| wwoods | It'd be nice to have a client-side tool that talked to bugzilla/bodhi/koji/pkgdb | <a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a> |
| wwoods | poelcat: depends on how we want it implemented | <a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a> |
| wwoods | at this point we *can* use the GNOME stuff if we're willing to put scripts on BZ itself | <a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a> |
| wwoods | (previously we couldn't use their pointkeeping system 'cuz it used mysql-specific stuff) | <a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a> |
| wwoods | I'd probably want to clean it up so it's a nice modular plugin (and was easier to configure weights for various actions) | <a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a> |
| wwoods | and have it able to send data elsewhere, so if we do similar scorekeeping in bodhi/koji/etc we can gather all that data in one central place | <a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a> |
| wwoods | but, again, that's stuff I want to do *after* getting some smoketesting in place | <a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a> |
| wwoods | unless I find someone who's willing to spearhead the effort themselves | <a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a> |
| wwoods | but yes - scorekeeping and a cool gtk-based bug searching/triaging app | <a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a> |
| wwoods | would be awesome. | <a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a> |
| wwoods | anyway, there was something about bugzilla policy that f13 wanted to discuss, but I don't think he's here | <a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a> |
| wwoods | so that discussion will be moved to -test-list (and/or -devel-list) | <a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a> |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | misc. | <a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a> | |
| wwoods | oh, one other thing. I'm seeing more and more audio bugs where the suggested solution is "remove pulseaudio" | <a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a> |
| wwoods | which kinda sucks. | <a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a> |
| wwoods | In theory, PA improvements were on the schedule for F9 to better integrate it with the system | <a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a> |
| rdieter | in fairness, it's a temporary workaround oftentimes, but the fundamental issues should still be addressed. | <a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a> |
| wwoods | right | <a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a> |
| wwoods | All people *really* need to do is remove alsa-plugins-pulseaudio and PA will magically stop being the default. | <a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a> |
| wwoods | but we have to keep an eye out for bugs about this junk and make sure Lennart addresses the big ones | <a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a> |
| wwoods | rdieter: how's KDE4 stuff going? | <a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a> |
| rdieter | wwoods: rawhide import is pretty much done. | <a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a> |
| rdieter | wwoods: now we need to actually start using it, and testing it out, polishing, etc... | <a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a> |
| wwoods | right on. good to hear! | <a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a> |
| rdieter | and dealing with a few pkgs here and there that still contain kde(3) deps, that are now awol. :) | <a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a> |
| wwoods | Are there likely to be any features in F9 that will change major desktop behaviors (like PA did) that we need to keep an eye out for? | <a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a> |
| wwoods | I have a feeling PolicyKit could prove slightly disruptive for non-GNOME/KDE envs | <a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a> |
| wwoods | anyway, that's something to keep in the backs of your heads | <a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a> |
| wwoods | that's all. Any other business to discuss? | <a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a> |
| rdieter | wwoods: I forget, is another "bug day" coming soon? | <a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a> |
| wwoods | There isn't one planned right now | <a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a> |
| rdieter | ok | <a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a> |
| wwoods | I was kind of disheartened - spent an entire 8-hour day working on it and I closed maybe 10 bugs | <a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a> |
| wwoods | and got into some fierce arguments | <a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a> |
| rdieter | hee, if it makes you feel better, a closed a whole load of old kde ones... | <a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a> |
| wwoods | that's good! | <a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a> |
| wwoods | Right now I'm not convinced that Bug Days are a good use of my time. | <a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a> |
| rdieter | if more folks don't show up to participate, you're prob right | <a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a> |
| wwoods | with more people (and once we've got some smoketest stuff going to catch the obvious stuff earlier) it would probably be very useful | <a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a> |
| wwoods | but I think we have bigger problems | <a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a> |
| wwoods | like broken rawhide and broken updates | <a href="#t10:36" class="time">10:36</a> |
| wwoods | if someone would like to plan a Bug Day, or wants to request a Bug Day to help triage a particular set of bugs | <a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a> |
| wwoods | I'd be totally behind that | <a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a> |
| jeremy | wwoods: I'm hoping to have a live image for testing a few installer related things by the first of next week | <a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a> |
| wwoods | oh nice. | <a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a> |
| wwoods | someday we need to figure out a good way of running automated tests on newly-produced live images | <a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a> |
| wwoods | kvm's probably the easiest way though | <a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a> |
| jeremy | you could pretty easily do boot it, get a screenshot to make sure the desktop came up | <a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a> |
| jeremy | more than that becomes tricky | <a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a> |
| wwoods | possibly we'll want some way of injecting commands from the boot line, like kickstart | <a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a> |
| wwoods | runscript=[url] | <a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a> |
| wwoods | or similar | <a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a> |
| jeremy | how do you plan on injecting commands into the bootloader, though? | <a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a> |
| wwoods | pull the kernel/initrd/squashfs off the image and boot it from system GRUB? | <a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a> |
| jeremy | you've now managed to avoid testing a lot of the livecd specific bits | <a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a> |
| wwoods | heh | <a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a> |
| wwoods | true. :/ | <a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a> |
| wwoods | well, somethin' to think about. I don't have an answer right now. | <a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a> |
| wwoods | let me know when you've got images, though | <a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a> |
| wwoods | everyone loves a livecd | <a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a> |
| jeremy | well, live-just-more-than-a-cd right now, but yeah | <a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a> |
| wwoods | liveimage | <a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a> |
| jeremy | (some stupid deps have appeared... filed bugs last week about them) | <a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a> |
| wwoods | livethingy | <a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a> |
| * rdieter likes livethingy | <a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a> | |
| wwoods | livecd, livedvd, liveusb, liveipod.. nah. just call it "livethingy" | <a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a> |
| wwoods | okay, anything else? | <a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a> |
| jeremy | liveipod is hard -- current ones are 2048 byte sectors which our bootloaders don't deal with | <a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a> |
| wwoods | really? bogus. | <a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a> |
| wwoods | stupid PC BIOSes caring about "sectors" | <a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a> |
| wwoods | okay, let's call this done. Thanks for your time, folks. | <a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a> |
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