ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2008-feb-04

Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-02-04

Alpha

• Tuesday the bit gets flipped
• http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/9/AlphaTreeTesting is the test status page

Reversing the netapp streams

• scheduled for today--we're working on pushing it back after the alpha
• change setup so that the content we generate in PHX can be put on a netapp in PHX
• instead of rsynced to RDU to be put on a netapp in RDU, and then mirrored by netapp back out to PHX
• this will result in shorter times between compose and visible to the world for things like rawhide and updates
• may delay the rawhide/updates for a bit

gcc 4.3

• gcc4.3 is in the buildroots for dist-f9 now, and some fallout has happened, namely kernel.
• striving to complete a mass rebuild before beta release

perl-5.10.0

• Feature page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Perl510
• 300 perl dependent packages as a sample set
• these packages were the base for which virtually all of the other perl dependent packages depend on
• out of those 300 about 60 more to build
• once complete the plan is to merge the new perl and the rebuilt bits into rawhide
• Fedora is the place where perl-5.10 was really first tested/used and the development ground for getting all the upstreams ported to the new perl

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting		13:05
f13	ping: notting jeremy jwb spot warren rdieter wwoods poelcat lmacken	13:06
* notting is here		13:06
* lmacken		13:06
* jeremy is here		13:06
* spot is here		13:07
* poelcat here		13:07
f13	aight.	13:08
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - F9 Alpha		13:08
f13	so the Alpha is being staged by mirrors.  They've had access to it since Friday	13:08
f13	so hopefully we'll have enough ready to go tomorrow	13:08
f13	I'm in teh process of uploading the isos to the torrent server and creating the torrents.  That should be done this afternoon	13:08
lmacken	f13: F9-Alpha-i686-20080129.0.iso ?	13:09
f13	lmacken: yeah, but renamed.	13:09
lmacken	cool.	13:09
f13	we'll hope the bit gets flipped and all will be happy tomorrow.	13:10
f13	anybody have anything else to bring up wrt Alpha?	13:10
wwoods	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/9/AlphaTreeTesting is the test status page	13:11
wwoods	we may need an updates.img for upgrades	13:11
f13	yeah, it's a bit rough around the edges, but it is an Alpha	13:11
wwoods	yup	13:11
wwoods	just trying to keep ahead of bug reporters to make life easier for triagers/developers	13:12
f13	nod	13:12
wwoods	oh - I want to pick a week sometime this month	13:12
wwoods	a couple weeks before the string freeze	13:12
wwoods	to make double-damn sure we have working boot/install images	13:12
wwoods	so that we can put out a call for translators to grab the rescuecd (or minimal-installer.iso or whatever we call it)	13:13
jeremy	wwoods: *nod*	13:13
jeremy	and I'm probably going to write a script in the next few days which will help make that a bit easier	13:13
wwoods	probably that'd be a good time to also make sure we have good Live images so we can have a big internal Laptop Test-fest	13:14
wwoods	jeremy: sweet	13:14
wwoods	do we have ppc images for alpha?	13:15
f13	wwoods: yes	13:15
f13	not live ones though	13:15
f13	sorry	13:15
wwoods	's cool	13:16
wwoods	I should probably do some ppc testing.. or ask jwb to update the test status page	13:17
wwoods	f13: if you can give me a pointer to an internal copy of the ppc bits I'll follow up on that after this meeting	13:17
f13	wwoods: it's on reducto	13:17
f13	moving on...	13:19
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora RelEng: Reversing the netapp streams		13:19
notting	this was scheduled for today. we're working on pushing it back after the alpha	13:19
f13	later this week we would like to reverse the netapp streams so that the content we generate in PHX can be put on a netapp in PHX, rather than rsynced to RDU to be put on a netapp in RDU, and then mirrored by netapp back out to PHX	13:19
f13	this will result in shorter times between compose and visible to the world for things like rawhide and updates	13:20
f13	a number of our processes will have to change though	13:20
f13	and ti's possible that rawhide/updates may be delayed for a bit	13:21
f13	as we trial and error our way through it	13:21
f13	notting, lmacken, mmcgrath, and I are the primary folks on this task, so if you have any thoughts/concerns/suggestions hit up one of us.	13:22
f13	anything further on this subject?	13:23
f13	aight.	13:23
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora RelEng: Gcc43		13:23
f13	gcc4.3 is in the buildroots for dist-f9 now, and some fallout has happened, namely kernel.	13:24
f13	but more importantly is that jakub has indicated that he'd like to see a massrebuild of our packages against the new gcc at some point, after a week or so if it being in the buildroots	13:24
notting	so... next week?	13:25
f13	March 4th is the Beta freeze	13:25
f13	so we'd likely have to do it next week or the week after	13:25
f13	and we have to decide if htis is going to be maintainer driven, or releng driven.	13:25
f13	IE we ask maintainers to do it and wait, or we just plow through and script massive amounts of builds.	13:25
notting	automated seems simpler to me	13:26
f13	you'd think.	13:26
notting	esp. if there aren't ordering concerns	13:26
f13	trying not to have conflicts is the problem.	13:26
f13	IE automation kicks off a build, maintainer comes along after that and also kicks off a build.	13:27
f13	automated was a backgroundjob, so the maintainer's job gets done first, then the automated one, automated (older) one is now the last tagged, and thus the 'newest'.	13:27
poelcat	f13: wouldn't we want the rebuilt packages to be in the beta?	13:27
f13	poelcat: yeah... that's why we're doing it before the beta freeze	13:28
poelcat	f13: sorry misread above	13:28
notting	f13: is there a way to not do 'automated/background'? or to have koji check for backwardsness?	13:29
f13	notting: if we don't do background, we essentially tie up the buildsystem for a few days.  no other buidls will get through until our entire set is done.	13:30
warren_treo	sorry at doctor	13:30
f13	notting: as for backwardness, I don't thikn there is anything koji itself can do.  We can run a query on the tag after all is said and done to detect nvr issues though.	13:30
f13	the added fun is that spot is going to want to land the new perl relatively soon as well, which is going to cause all kinds of pain	13:31
warren_treo	what ver of perl?	13:31
spot	5.10.0	13:31
warren_treo	wow	13:31
* spot has been chainbuilding for weeks		13:32
warren_treo	spot: is there a URL describing the compat impact of this new perl?	13:33
* warren_treo wonders if anybody tested spamassassin on perl 5.10		13:34
notting	f13: so, do we have the scripts ready to start the automated buildatron?	13:35
f13	notting: nope.  I haven't spent any time on that recently	13:35
warren_treo	build order is known?	13:35
f13	warren_treo: we're ignoring buildorder	13:36
warren_treo	oh	13:36
f13	at least for the first pass.	13:36
f13	to avoid cvs conflicts, I imagine the script would go through each needed build (query to fall out of koji for things not yet built with new gcc), do a checkout, do an autobump of hte spec (*shudder*), commit/tag/build --background; and move on.	13:37
notting	when was the last time we did one?	13:38
f13	most of that has been done before	13:38
f13	the autospecbump does run into problems every now and again with malformed spec files	13:38
f13	and catching either cvs errors, or tag errors can be difficult, as well as gathering in the build failures for investigation.	13:38
warren_treo	malformed as in encoding.	13:39
warren_treo	?	13:39
f13	warren_treo: no, as in dirty games with Release: tags	13:39
f13	programatically editing spec files is not easy	13:39
notting	was the last rebuild maintainer-driven?	13:39
warren_treo	nod	13:39
f13	notting: yeah	13:39
notting	the other option is to punt maintainer vs. automated to fesco >:)	13:40
warren_treo	btw did we get past the gcc43 kernel build issue?	13:40
f13	the last one that we did any scripting of was fc6 time frame.  And then some smaller less scripted ones for the last glibc fallout where ppc was boned.	13:40
f13	warren_treo: not yet afaict	13:40
f13	also, last time we let maintainers opt in/out of autobuilding	13:41
f13	usually with a file in their module.	13:41
f13	something we should consider this time.	13:41
f13	basically releng should come up with a proposal on how to accomplish the rebuilds and present it to FESCo	13:42
warren_treo	I hope we can do it without cvs...	13:42
f13	I suppose that will fall on me unless anybody else wants to take a stab at it.	13:42
warren_treo	optin out that is	13:42
f13	warren_treo: have better ideas?	13:42
f13	we need to identify and mark packages that need to be rebuilt	13:42
f13	and then let maintainers scrub them from the list.	13:43
f13	maybe a wiki page?	13:43
warren_treo	could it be added as a flag in pkgdb?  might be quick	13:43
notting	pkgdb lives forever, though	13:43
warren_treo	mm	13:43
f13	yeah, not sure if pkgdb is setup for arbitrary flags like that	13:43
f13	so I'll work up a plan, and ping ya'll as it comes along.  Not enough days in the week.	13:45
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora RelEng: perl-5.10.0		13:45
warren_treo	prior to gcc43 I heard mention that mass rebuild wouldn't be necessary, what happened?	13:45
f13	warren_treo: it's not /necessary/, but desired by the gcc team.	13:46
warren_treo	ok	13:46
f13	spot: can you give us a rundown on the perl status?	13:46
spot	sure.	13:46
spot	i identified 300 perl dependent packages as a sample set	13:46
spot	these packages were the base for which virtually all of the other perl dependent packages depend on	13:47
spot	Out of those 300	13:47
spot	i have about 60 more to build	13:47
spot	once that is done, the plan is to merge the new perl and the rebuilt bits into rawhide	13:48
warren_treo	perl-5.10 and pkgs built against it are in a separate tag now?	13:48
spot	warren: yes, dist-f9-perl	13:48
spot	once merged, there will still be lots of things broken	13:49
f13	spot: are you planning on doing a Feature for perl-5.10, which includes info about when it'll land, and what we expect other perl maintianers to do once it does land?	13:50
f13	(and a rollback plan)	13:50
spot	f13: Yep, just hadn't gotten a round tuit yet.	13:50
notting	spot: why will there be things broken?	13:50
warren_treo	rollback sounds scary when hundreds of pkgs re involved :)	13:50
f13	warren_treo: untag!	13:51
f13	unless you want to force epoch into all of those.... (:	13:51
spot	notting: because everything hasn't been rebuilt against the new perl yet	13:51
notting	spot: .... is dist-f9-perl not going to encompass 'everything'?	13:51
warren_treo	even things like pidgin build against perl	13:51
notting	or are you only rebuilding pure-perl	13:52
notting	?	13:52
spot	notting: it would be much faster if the individual maintainers did the rebuilds	13:52
* warren_treo wonders what will utterly fail		13:52
spot	warren: so far, only one thing has failed, and I fixed it.	13:52
f13	this could put Fedora in a pretty cool place	13:52
warren_treo	spot: what was the cause of that failure?	13:52
spot	the difficulty is in the ordering	13:52
f13	Fedora was the place where perl-5.10 was really first tested/used and the development ground for getting all the upstreams ported to the new perl.	13:53
spot	warren: old crufty code making bad assumptions about array behavior	13:53
warren_treo	f13: yes assuming the code continues to work	13:53
warren_treo	oh	13:53
notting	f13: 'fedora 9 shipped a new perl. it worked. no one noticed.'?	13:53
warren_treo	gotta go now, appt coming up	13:54
spot	notting: upstream perl certainly is watching this.	13:54
spot	we've got their backing as we go forward	13:54
spot	i did the rebuild of these 300 packages so that the maintainers could just rebuild their bits without having to hunt down the other deps in the chain	13:55
spot	this is the trunk. everything else is leaves.	13:55
f13	the day we merge, is the broken dep report going to be 400 packages long?	13:55
spot	yes.	13:55
f13	hawt	13:56
spot	but, for those folks tracking rawhide, it should still be mostly upgradeable.	13:56
notting	spot: is it possible to spit out a compat-libperl for the interim?	13:57
spot	notting: nope.	13:57
spot	i really don't want to do that.	13:57
notting	spot: how many of the broken leaves are in the build chain?	13:57
spot	in the build chain for other, non-perl packages?	13:58
notting	yes. say, auto*	13:58
spot	nada.	13:58
spot	the 300 rebuilds cover those cases.	13:58
notting	ok then. carry on, sir!	13:58
spot	(base perl pulled in a lot of external modules in 5.10.0)	13:58
spot	made things somewhat simpler.	13:59
spot	a few packages will have to be blocked in devel at the same time that we merge	13:59
spot	i've identified those (still need to email their maintainers and let them know)	13:59
nirik	couldn't you just add that dist-f9-perl tag to the inheritance in koji, and rawhide would pick up all those builds? or were they just testing builds?	13:59
spot	nirik: that's certainly one way to do it. i defer to f13 on how he wants to do it.	14:00
spot	we need to block those packages because their n-v-r might be higher than what is in base perl.	14:00
f13	nirik: at the end of the day it doesn't necessarily matter.	14:00
f13	actually wait	14:00
f13	it does matter.	14:01
nirik	well, it seems a waste to rebuild them all... but whatever works.	14:01
f13	a number of these perl packages have already been built in dist-f9	14:01
f13	nirik: they won't be rebuilt.	14:01
f13	we can't add dist-f9-perl to the inheritance chain, as anythign expecitly built in dist-f9 will win over anythign inherited, regardless of nvr	14:01
f13	instead, we can just koji tag-pkg everything in dist-f9-perl to dist-f9.	14:01
f13	no rebuilding, then everything has a dist-f9 tag.	14:02
nirik	cool.	14:02
spot	yeah, i wasn't planning on doing two rounds of rebuilds. :)	14:02
f13	spot: you'll still have to identify the things that have been built since you did your dist-f9-perl build of them	14:02
spot	yep.	14:02
spot	thankfully, most of these things don't move much at all.	14:03
f13	nod	14:03
f13	ok, we're running out of time here.	14:03
f13	spot: do you want to try and land perl before or after the mass rebuild?	14:03
spot	perfect world, before.	14:04
f13	(and I imagine a number of your packages will have to get built anyway, for the new gcc)	14:04
f13	ok.	14:04
spot	f13: some of them have already picked up the new gcc	14:04
spot	it doesn't seem to break anything yet.	14:04
notting	break-everything-at-once?	14:04
f13	notting: please no.	14:04
spot	i did a rebuild of perl-5.10 itself after gcc43 hit rawhide	14:04
spot	and it is fine.	14:04
f13	spot: goot.	14:04
f13	spot: lets see where you're at next week?  I"d like to see FESCo get some visibility on this beofre we start breaking the world.	14:05
spot	sure.	14:05
spot	hopefully, i'll be ready before then.	14:05
notting	well, that would push back the 'regular' mass rebuild, then	14:06
notting	(which is ok, just making sure we have a plan together)	14:06
f13	notting: yeah, perl next week, mass rebuild the week after, leading up to Beta	14:06
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora RelEng: Open Discussion		14:09
f13	any thing else people would like to talk about this week?	14:09
f13	alright, calling it a meeting.	14:12
f13	cheers all!	14:12

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