From Fedora Project Wiki
Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-02-04
Alpha
- Tuesday the bit gets flipped
- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/9/AlphaTreeTesting is the test status page
Reversing the netapp streams
- scheduled for today--we're working on pushing it back after the alpha
- change setup so that the content we generate in PHX can be put on a netapp in PHX
- instead of rsynced to RDU to be put on a netapp in RDU, and then mirrored by netapp back out to PHX
- this will result in shorter times between compose and visible to the world for things like rawhide and updates
- may delay the rawhide/updates for a bit
gcc 4.3
- gcc4.3 is in the buildroots for dist-f9 now, and some fallout has happened, namely kernel.
- striving to complete a mass rebuild before beta release
perl-5.10.0
- Feature page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Perl510
- 300 perl dependent packages as a sample set
- these packages were the base for which virtually all of the other perl dependent packages depend on
- out of those 300 about 60 more to build
- once complete the plan is to merge the new perl and the rebuilt bits into rawhide
- Fedora is the place where perl-5.10 was really first tested/used and the development ground for getting all the upstreams ported to the new perl
IRC Transcript
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting | 13:05 | |
| f13 | ping: notting jeremy jwb spot warren rdieter wwoods poelcat lmacken | 13:06 |
|---|---|---|
| * notting is here | 13:06 | |
| * lmacken | 13:06 | |
| * jeremy is here | 13:06 | |
| * spot is here | 13:07 | |
| * poelcat here | 13:07 | |
| f13 | aight. | 13:08 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - F9 Alpha | 13:08 | |
| f13 | so the Alpha is being staged by mirrors. They've had access to it since Friday | 13:08 |
| f13 | so hopefully we'll have enough ready to go tomorrow | 13:08 |
| f13 | I'm in teh process of uploading the isos to the torrent server and creating the torrents. That should be done this afternoon | 13:08 |
| lmacken | f13: F9-Alpha-i686-20080129.0.iso ? | 13:09 |
| f13 | lmacken: yeah, but renamed. | 13:09 |
| lmacken | cool. | 13:09 |
| f13 | we'll hope the bit gets flipped and all will be happy tomorrow. | 13:10 |
| f13 | anybody have anything else to bring up wrt Alpha? | 13:10 |
| wwoods | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/9/AlphaTreeTesting is the test status page | 13:11 |
| wwoods | we may need an updates.img for upgrades | 13:11 |
| f13 | yeah, it's a bit rough around the edges, but it is an Alpha | 13:11 |
| wwoods | yup | 13:11 |
| wwoods | just trying to keep ahead of bug reporters to make life easier for triagers/developers | 13:12 |
| f13 | nod | 13:12 |
| wwoods | oh - I want to pick a week sometime this month | 13:12 |
| wwoods | a couple weeks before the string freeze | 13:12 |
| wwoods | to make double-damn sure we have working boot/install images | 13:12 |
| wwoods | so that we can put out a call for translators to grab the rescuecd (or minimal-installer.iso or whatever we call it) | 13:13 |
| jeremy | wwoods: *nod* | 13:13 |
| jeremy | and I'm probably going to write a script in the next few days which will help make that a bit easier | 13:13 |
| wwoods | probably that'd be a good time to also make sure we have good Live images so we can have a big internal Laptop Test-fest | 13:14 |
| wwoods | jeremy: sweet | 13:14 |
| wwoods | do we have ppc images for alpha? | 13:15 |
| f13 | wwoods: yes | 13:15 |
| f13 | not live ones though | 13:15 |
| f13 | sorry | 13:15 |
| wwoods | 's cool | 13:16 |
| wwoods | I should probably do some ppc testing.. or ask jwb to update the test status page | 13:17 |
| wwoods | f13: if you can give me a pointer to an internal copy of the ppc bits I'll follow up on that after this meeting | 13:17 |
| f13 | wwoods: it's on reducto | 13:17 |
| f13 | moving on... | 13:19 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora RelEng: Reversing the netapp streams | 13:19 | |
| notting | this was scheduled for today. we're working on pushing it back after the alpha | 13:19 |
| f13 | later this week we would like to reverse the netapp streams so that the content we generate in PHX can be put on a netapp in PHX, rather than rsynced to RDU to be put on a netapp in RDU, and then mirrored by netapp back out to PHX | 13:19 |
| f13 | this will result in shorter times between compose and visible to the world for things like rawhide and updates | 13:20 |
| f13 | a number of our processes will have to change though | 13:20 |
| f13 | and ti's possible that rawhide/updates may be delayed for a bit | 13:21 |
| f13 | as we trial and error our way through it | 13:21 |
| f13 | notting, lmacken, mmcgrath, and I are the primary folks on this task, so if you have any thoughts/concerns/suggestions hit up one of us. | 13:22 |
| f13 | anything further on this subject? | 13:23 |
| f13 | aight. | 13:23 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora RelEng: Gcc43 | 13:23 | |
| f13 | gcc4.3 is in the buildroots for dist-f9 now, and some fallout has happened, namely kernel. | 13:24 |
| f13 | but more importantly is that jakub has indicated that he'd like to see a massrebuild of our packages against the new gcc at some point, after a week or so if it being in the buildroots | 13:24 |
| notting | so... next week? | 13:25 |
| f13 | March 4th is the Beta freeze | 13:25 |
| f13 | so we'd likely have to do it next week or the week after | 13:25 |
| f13 | and we have to decide if htis is going to be maintainer driven, or releng driven. | 13:25 |
| f13 | IE we ask maintainers to do it and wait, or we just plow through and script massive amounts of builds. | 13:25 |
| notting | automated seems simpler to me | 13:26 |
| f13 | you'd think. | 13:26 |
| notting | esp. if there aren't ordering concerns | 13:26 |
| f13 | trying not to have conflicts is the problem. | 13:26 |
| f13 | IE automation kicks off a build, maintainer comes along after that and also kicks off a build. | 13:27 |
| f13 | automated was a backgroundjob, so the maintainer's job gets done first, then the automated one, automated (older) one is now the last tagged, and thus the 'newest'. | 13:27 |
| poelcat | f13: wouldn't we want the rebuilt packages to be in the beta? | 13:27 |
| f13 | poelcat: yeah... that's why we're doing it before the beta freeze | 13:28 |
| poelcat | f13: sorry misread above | 13:28 |
| notting | f13: is there a way to not do 'automated/background'? or to have koji check for backwardsness? | 13:29 |
| f13 | notting: if we don't do background, we essentially tie up the buildsystem for a few days. no other buidls will get through until our entire set is done. | 13:30 |
| warren_treo | sorry at doctor | 13:30 |
| f13 | notting: as for backwardness, I don't thikn there is anything koji itself can do. We can run a query on the tag after all is said and done to detect nvr issues though. | 13:30 |
| f13 | the added fun is that spot is going to want to land the new perl relatively soon as well, which is going to cause all kinds of pain | 13:31 |
| warren_treo | what ver of perl? | 13:31 |
| spot | 5.10.0 | 13:31 |
| warren_treo | wow | 13:31 |
| * spot has been chainbuilding for weeks | 13:32 | |
| warren_treo | spot: is there a URL describing the compat impact of this new perl? | 13:33 |
| * warren_treo wonders if anybody tested spamassassin on perl 5.10 | 13:34 | |
| notting | f13: so, do we have the scripts ready to start the automated buildatron? | 13:35 |
| f13 | notting: nope. I haven't spent any time on that recently | 13:35 |
| warren_treo | build order is known? | 13:35 |
| f13 | warren_treo: we're ignoring buildorder | 13:36 |
| warren_treo | oh | 13:36 |
| f13 | at least for the first pass. | 13:36 |
| f13 | to avoid cvs conflicts, I imagine the script would go through each needed build (query to fall out of koji for things not yet built with new gcc), do a checkout, do an autobump of hte spec (*shudder*), commit/tag/build --background; and move on. | 13:37 |
| notting | when was the last time we did one? | 13:38 |
| f13 | most of that has been done before | 13:38 |
| f13 | the autospecbump does run into problems every now and again with malformed spec files | 13:38 |
| f13 | and catching either cvs errors, or tag errors can be difficult, as well as gathering in the build failures for investigation. | 13:38 |
| warren_treo | malformed as in encoding. | 13:39 |
| warren_treo | ? | 13:39 |
| f13 | warren_treo: no, as in dirty games with Release: tags | 13:39 |
| f13 | programatically editing spec files is not easy | 13:39 |
| notting | was the last rebuild maintainer-driven? | 13:39 |
| warren_treo | nod | 13:39 |
| f13 | notting: yeah | 13:39 |
| notting | the other option is to punt maintainer vs. automated to fesco >:) | 13:40 |
| warren_treo | btw did we get past the gcc43 kernel build issue? | 13:40 |
| f13 | the last one that we did any scripting of was fc6 time frame. And then some smaller less scripted ones for the last glibc fallout where ppc was boned. | 13:40 |
| f13 | warren_treo: not yet afaict | 13:40 |
| f13 | also, last time we let maintainers opt in/out of autobuilding | 13:41 |
| f13 | usually with a file in their module. | 13:41 |
| f13 | something we should consider this time. | 13:41 |
| f13 | basically releng should come up with a proposal on how to accomplish the rebuilds and present it to FESCo | 13:42 |
| warren_treo | I hope we can do it without cvs... | 13:42 |
| f13 | I suppose that will fall on me unless anybody else wants to take a stab at it. | 13:42 |
| warren_treo | optin out that is | 13:42 |
| f13 | warren_treo: have better ideas? | 13:42 |
| f13 | we need to identify and mark packages that need to be rebuilt | 13:42 |
| f13 | and then let maintainers scrub them from the list. | 13:43 |
| f13 | maybe a wiki page? | 13:43 |
| warren_treo | could it be added as a flag in pkgdb? might be quick | 13:43 |
| notting | pkgdb lives forever, though | 13:43 |
| warren_treo | mm | 13:43 |
| f13 | yeah, not sure if pkgdb is setup for arbitrary flags like that | 13:43 |
| f13 | so I'll work up a plan, and ping ya'll as it comes along. Not enough days in the week. | 13:45 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora RelEng: perl-5.10.0 | 13:45 | |
| warren_treo | prior to gcc43 I heard mention that mass rebuild wouldn't be necessary, what happened? | 13:45 |
| f13 | warren_treo: it's not /necessary/, but desired by the gcc team. | 13:46 |
| warren_treo | ok | 13:46 |
| f13 | spot: can you give us a rundown on the perl status? | 13:46 |
| spot | sure. | 13:46 |
| spot | i identified 300 perl dependent packages as a sample set | 13:46 |
| spot | these packages were the base for which virtually all of the other perl dependent packages depend on | 13:47 |
| spot | Out of those 300 | 13:47 |
| spot | i have about 60 more to build | 13:47 |
| spot | once that is done, the plan is to merge the new perl and the rebuilt bits into rawhide | 13:48 |
| warren_treo | perl-5.10 and pkgs built against it are in a separate tag now? | 13:48 |
| spot | warren: yes, dist-f9-perl | 13:48 |
| spot | once merged, there will still be lots of things broken | 13:49 |
| f13 | spot: are you planning on doing a Feature for perl-5.10, which includes info about when it'll land, and what we expect other perl maintianers to do once it does land? | 13:50 |
| f13 | (and a rollback plan) | 13:50 |
| spot | f13: Yep, just hadn't gotten a round tuit yet. | 13:50 |
| notting | spot: why will there be things broken? | 13:50 |
| warren_treo | rollback sounds scary when hundreds of pkgs re involved :) | 13:50 |
| f13 | warren_treo: untag! | 13:51 |
| f13 | unless you want to force epoch into all of those.... (: | 13:51 |
| spot | notting: because everything hasn't been rebuilt against the new perl yet | 13:51 |
| notting | spot: .... is dist-f9-perl not going to encompass 'everything'? | 13:51 |
| warren_treo | even things like pidgin build against perl | 13:51 |
| notting | or are you only rebuilding pure-perl | 13:52 |
| notting | ? | 13:52 |
| spot | notting: it would be much faster if the individual maintainers did the rebuilds | 13:52 |
| * warren_treo wonders what will utterly fail | 13:52 | |
| spot | warren: so far, only one thing has failed, and I fixed it. | 13:52 |
| f13 | this could put Fedora in a pretty cool place | 13:52 |
| warren_treo | spot: what was the cause of that failure? | 13:52 |
| spot | the difficulty is in the ordering | 13:52 |
| f13 | Fedora was the place where perl-5.10 was really first tested/used and the development ground for getting all the upstreams ported to the new perl. | 13:53 |
| spot | warren: old crufty code making bad assumptions about array behavior | 13:53 |
| warren_treo | f13: yes assuming the code continues to work | 13:53 |
| warren_treo | oh | 13:53 |
| notting | f13: 'fedora 9 shipped a new perl. it worked. no one noticed.'? | 13:53 |
| warren_treo | gotta go now, appt coming up | 13:54 |
| spot | notting: upstream perl certainly is watching this. | 13:54 |
| spot | we've got their backing as we go forward | 13:54 |
| spot | i did the rebuild of these 300 packages so that the maintainers could just rebuild their bits without having to hunt down the other deps in the chain | 13:55 |
| spot | this is the trunk. everything else is leaves. | 13:55 |
| f13 | the day we merge, is the broken dep report going to be 400 packages long? | 13:55 |
| spot | yes. | 13:55 |
| f13 | hawt | 13:56 |
| spot | but, for those folks tracking rawhide, it should still be mostly upgradeable. | 13:56 |
| notting | spot: is it possible to spit out a compat-libperl for the interim? | 13:57 |
| spot | notting: nope. | 13:57 |
| spot | i really don't want to do that. | 13:57 |
| notting | spot: how many of the broken leaves are in the build chain? | 13:57 |
| spot | in the build chain for other, non-perl packages? | 13:58 |
| notting | yes. say, auto* | 13:58 |
| spot | nada. | 13:58 |
| spot | the 300 rebuilds cover those cases. | 13:58 |
| notting | ok then. carry on, sir! | 13:58 |
| spot | (base perl pulled in a lot of external modules in 5.10.0) | 13:58 |
| spot | made things somewhat simpler. | 13:59 |
| spot | a few packages will have to be blocked in devel at the same time that we merge | 13:59 |
| spot | i've identified those (still need to email their maintainers and let them know) | 13:59 |
| nirik | couldn't you just add that dist-f9-perl tag to the inheritance in koji, and rawhide would pick up all those builds? or were they just testing builds? | 13:59 |
| spot | nirik: that's certainly one way to do it. i defer to f13 on how he wants to do it. | 14:00 |
| spot | we need to block those packages because their n-v-r might be higher than what is in base perl. | 14:00 |
| f13 | nirik: at the end of the day it doesn't necessarily matter. | 14:00 |
| f13 | actually wait | 14:00 |
| f13 | it does matter. | 14:01 |
| nirik | well, it seems a waste to rebuild them all... but whatever works. | 14:01 |
| f13 | a number of these perl packages have already been built in dist-f9 | 14:01 |
| f13 | nirik: they won't be rebuilt. | 14:01 |
| f13 | we can't add dist-f9-perl to the inheritance chain, as anythign expecitly built in dist-f9 will win over anythign inherited, regardless of nvr | 14:01 |
| f13 | instead, we can just koji tag-pkg everything in dist-f9-perl to dist-f9. | 14:01 |
| f13 | no rebuilding, then everything has a dist-f9 tag. | 14:02 |
| nirik | cool. | 14:02 |
| spot | yeah, i wasn't planning on doing two rounds of rebuilds. :) | 14:02 |
| f13 | spot: you'll still have to identify the things that have been built since you did your dist-f9-perl build of them | 14:02 |
| spot | yep. | 14:02 |
| spot | thankfully, most of these things don't move much at all. | 14:03 |
| f13 | nod | 14:03 |
| f13 | ok, we're running out of time here. | 14:03 |
| f13 | spot: do you want to try and land perl before or after the mass rebuild? | 14:03 |
| spot | perfect world, before. | 14:04 |
| f13 | (and I imagine a number of your packages will have to get built anyway, for the new gcc) | 14:04 |
| f13 | ok. | 14:04 |
| spot | f13: some of them have already picked up the new gcc | 14:04 |
| spot | it doesn't seem to break anything yet. | 14:04 |
| notting | break-everything-at-once? | 14:04 |
| f13 | notting: please no. | 14:04 |
| spot | i did a rebuild of perl-5.10 itself after gcc43 hit rawhide | 14:04 |
| spot | and it is fine. | 14:04 |
| f13 | spot: goot. | 14:04 |
| f13 | spot: lets see where you're at next week? I"d like to see FESCo get some visibility on this beofre we start breaking the world. | 14:05 |
| spot | sure. | 14:05 |
| spot | hopefully, i'll be ready before then. | 14:05 |
| notting | well, that would push back the 'regular' mass rebuild, then | 14:06 |
| notting | (which is ok, just making sure we have a plan together) | 14:06 |
| f13 | notting: yeah, perl next week, mass rebuild the week after, leading up to Beta | 14:06 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora RelEng: Open Discussion | 14:09 | |
| f13 | any thing else people would like to talk about this week? | 14:09 |
| f13 | alright, calling it a meeting. | 14:12 |
| f13 | cheers all! | 14:12 |
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