From Fedora Project Wiki
< BugZappers | Meetings
Bug Triage Meeting :: 2009-04-14
Attendees
- adamw
- arxs
- iarlyy
- jlaska
- poelcat
- tk009
Topics of Discussion
- Blocker Bugs - Discussed need to increase the quality of the existing documentation on the wiki (QA/ReleaseCriteria) to assist triagers/QA in identifying and adding blockers to the Blocker List.
This will be a collaborative effort with QA.
- SOP's - Discussed the creation of a BugZappers SOP page and the status of the Introduction Email SOP.
poelcat will create the main page and Adam will fishing the Introduction Email SOP for inclusion.
- Continued the discussion on the time allowance for NEEDINFO response.
The current guideline's of 30+30 days for closing a non-responsive NEEDINFO will remain. A minimum of no less than 30 days will be all that is "required" before closing a non-responsive NEEDINFO. This will be at the discretion of the triager.
Still waiting for the information from adamw's -devel email and beland was unable to attend the meeting.
IRC Transcript
| tk009 | BugZappers meeting starting, who is here? | Apr 14 11:01 |
|---|---|---|
| ---poelcat_ has changed the topic to: Bug Triage Meeting | Apr 14 11:01 | |
| arxs | hello | Apr 14 11:01 |
| tk009 | =) | Apr 14 11:01 |
| iarlyy | I'm here | Apr 14 11:01 |
| adamw | to | Apr 14 11:01 |
| adamw | yo, even | Apr 14 11:01 |
| *poelcat_ here | Apr 14 11:01 | |
| ---poelcat_ is now known as poelcat | Apr 14 11:01 | |
| poelcat | tk009: you want to run the agenda? | Apr 14 11:02 |
| tk009 | I can | Apr 14 11:02 |
| poelcat | go for it :) | Apr 14 11:02 |
| tk009 | First we have - Blocker Bugs | Apr 14 11:02 |
| tk009 | I am not sure what should be said here. I know I have not added to that list | Apr 14 11:03 |
| tk009 | I am not confident in knowing what should be on there | Apr 14 11:03 |
| poelcat | be on the lookout for bugs that should block the release | Apr 14 11:04 |
| poelcat | QA/ReleaseCriteria | Apr 14 11:04 |
| adamw | does everyone know how to set a bug as a blocker or target for f11, and the difference? | Apr 14 11:04 |
| tk009 | well that i knew I am just not sure I know who to spot those bugs | Apr 14 11:04 |
| poelcat | handy blocker bug cheat-sheet BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Trackers | Apr 14 11:04 |
| tk009 | I need a refresher adam | Apr 14 11:04 |
| adamw | I like to work on the basis of "if we ship the release with this bug, will there be pitchfork-carrying mobs, or a story on slashdot?" | Apr 14 11:05 |
| adamw | tk009: there's a "Blocks:" field | Apr 14 11:05 |
| adamw | tk009: for a blocker bug, enter "F11Blocker" in that field | Apr 14 11:05 |
| adamw | for a target bug (we'd like to have this fixed but we won't delay the release), enter "F11Target" | Apr 14 11:05 |
| poelcat | adamw: historically QA/ReleaseCriteria has been the guide | Apr 14 11:06 |
| adamw | poelcat: but it doesn't mention pitchforks anywhere! | Apr 14 11:06 |
| tk009 | that is what I mean, I am not confident in making that call in the past | Apr 14 11:06 |
| adamw | fine, use poelcat's boring, po-faced wiki page then =) | Apr 14 11:06 |
| tk009 | I read releasecriteria | Apr 14 11:06 |
| iarlyy | this question about f11blocker isn't for bug triage after meeting? | Apr 14 11:07 |
| poelcat | adamw: that would be QA's wiki page, not mine | Apr 14 11:07 |
| adamw | iarlyy: we can work on it after the meeting, but it's also topical here, since if we want to work on the blocker list we need to know what we're doing... | Apr 14 11:07 |
| jlaska | that wiki page is something I think we (QA) can improve to provide guidance for folks outside the day-to-day operations when it comes to assessing severity (or blocker status) | Apr 14 11:08 |
| poelcat | adamw: i've been criticized in the past for criticizing it, but never got around to proposing a better one :) | Apr 14 11:08 |
| adamw | maybe we should stick it onto the QA agenda for tomorrow jlaska? | Apr 14 11:09 |
| tk009 | what I think I want to know is this: who is in the best position to see these blocker bugs for what they are? | Apr 14 11:09 |
| adamw | but anyway, if you find what you think is a really serious bug but you're not confident about adding to the list, don't suffer in silence - mail the mailing list or bring it up at a meeting | Apr 14 11:10 |
| tk009 | if that made sense | Apr 14 11:10 |
| adamw | jlaska: traditionally it's been releng's job mostly to manage the blocker list, right? | Apr 14 11:10 |
| jlaska | adamw: for the most part ... but I feel we need to open this up and make it easier for others to contribute | Apr 14 11:10 |
| tk009 | only speaking for myself, I jsut am not skilled enough to spot them as blockers | Apr 14 11:11 |
| tk009 | I want to be but am not there yet | Apr 14 11:11 |
| jlaska | tk009: me neither, I think we can at least outline some basic criteria | Apr 14 11:11 |
| poelcat | tk009: i think you are, we just need better guidelines :) | Apr 14 11:11 |
| jlaska | that too! ^^^ | Apr 14 11:11 |
| tk009 | s owe need to work with QA on guidelines? Or let them fix that up and we will follow? | Apr 14 11:12 |
| poelcat | sounds good, maybe loop back on this next week | Apr 14 11:12 |
| jlaska | definitely a collab effort ... I think QA can provide a draft | Apr 14 11:13 |
| adamw | we'll discuss it in the qa meeting tomorrow | Apr 14 11:13 |
| tk009 | kk | Apr 14 11:13 |
| *jlaska queues for topic | Apr 14 11:13 | |
| adamw | practically speaking it's likely to wind up on -test-list anyway :) | Apr 14 11:13 |
| poelcat | and we could put it to the test for the preview release http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/ | Apr 14 11:13 |
| tk009 | anymore we want to say on this or should we move n? | Apr 14 11:14 |
| tk009 | on* | Apr 14 11:14 |
| poelcat | onward | Apr 14 11:14 |
| tk009 | 2) SOP's - Discuss the status of the Introduction Email SOP, creating a master SOP page (like Infrastructure group) as a home for this SOP and the Housekeeping SOP. | Apr 14 11:15 |
| arxs | next please | Apr 14 11:15 |
| tk009 | I am not sure where this was left | Apr 14 11:15 |
| tk009 | I was working on the email sop but missed allot of the feedback | Apr 14 11:15 |
| adamw | right, i'd like to have the introduction email thing done and dusted | Apr 14 11:15 |
| poelcat | i don't think we decided where all SOPs should live | Apr 14 11:15 |
| poelcat | or how to group them | Apr 14 11:16 |
| tk009 | poelcat had a good idea that we creat a home for our SOP's in infrastructure | Apr 14 11:16 |
| poelcat | well, create them LIKE infrastructure | Apr 14 11:16 |
| tk009 | there is an SOP page | Apr 14 11:16 |
| poelcat | but have our own front page for SOPS | Apr 14 11:16 |
| adamw | i don't really mind, and i don't think it's that important until we have at least two =) | Apr 14 11:17 |
| poelcat | we probably don't need to discuss at length, just have someone create it | Apr 14 11:17 |
| poelcat | adamw: we do now | Apr 14 11:17 |
| tk009 | we have housekeeping and the email | Apr 14 11:17 |
| adamw | oh yes. woo. | Apr 14 11:18 |
| tk009 | two my brother =) | Apr 14 11:18 |
| adamw | ok, so who wants to create it? poelcat? | Apr 14 11:18 |
| tk009 | where is beland when we need him =) | Apr 14 11:19 |
| adamw | hehe | Apr 14 11:19 |
| poelcat | okay | Apr 14 11:19 |
| poelcat | i'll do it | Apr 14 11:19 |
| adamw | alright, so i move we let poelcat JFDI | Apr 14 11:19 |
| adamw | we trust him right guys? :) | Apr 14 11:19 |
| tk009 | word! | Apr 14 11:19 |
| tk009 | okay, moving on | Apr 14 11:19 |
| tk009 | 3) Continue the discussion on the time allowance for NEEDINFO response. There seemed to be agreement on a different time frame for rawhide. | Apr 14 11:19 |
| iarlyy | he's the man xD | Apr 14 11:20 |
| tk009 | was I correct in that statement? | Apr 14 11:20 |
| iarlyy | tk009: I don't understood about is this topic | Apr 14 11:20 |
| tk009 | I need to explain it better | Apr 14 11:20 |
| iarlyy | I wasn't present in the last meeting | Apr 14 11:21 |
| tk009 | right now we have a policy of 30+30 days before we close a no response NEEDINFO | Apr 14 11:21 |
| tk009 | we set the NEEDINFO flag wait 30 days | Apr 14 11:21 |
| tk009 | if no reponse we set a NEEDINFO reminder for 30 days | Apr 14 11:22 |
| tk009 | if no reponse we close it | Apr 14 11:22 |
| tk009 | in the last meeting we talked about rawhide needing a quicker response | Apr 14 11:22 |
| iarlyy | close without any reminder? | Apr 14 11:22 |
| tk009 | if there is no reponse to the NEEDINFO reminder in 30 days, yes we close it | Apr 14 11:23 |
| tk009 | that is the current policy | Apr 14 11:23 |
| tk009 | that is to long for a response IMO for rawhide | Apr 14 11:23 |
| tk009 | how do others feel about this | Apr 14 11:24 |
| adamw | we had something of a bunfight last week and didn't really come up with an agreement | Apr 14 11:24 |
| adamw | i honestly don't really care that much | Apr 14 11:24 |
| tk009 | I jsut want us "all" to be on the same page | Apr 14 11:24 |
| tk009 | and 60 days does seem to long for rawhide | Apr 14 11:25 |
| tk009 | however if no one cares we can leave it as is | Apr 14 11:25 |
| tk009 | I did ention the agenda wasn't up to par thisweek | Apr 14 11:26 |
| tk009 | =) | Apr 14 11:26 |
| iarlyy | 1/3 of total time for a fedora version development | Apr 14 11:26 |
| *poelcat still thinks set to NEEDINFO for 30 days w/ warning, then close | Apr 14 11:27 | |
| tk009 | okay well adam spoke, anyone else on this? | Apr 14 11:27 |
| poelcat | but if people really think 30 + 30 is needed then i'm okay with trying it out | Apr 14 11:27 |
| adamw | sure, but where's the harm? we close bugs to keep the database sane, it doesn't have any particular relationship with the rawhide release cycle | Apr 14 11:27 |
| tk009 | I'll be honest I like 30 and close better | Apr 14 11:27 |
| arxs | 15+15 for rawhide and 30+30 for live | Apr 14 11:28 |
| adamw | but again, i don't really mind either way, i don't think it's a huge issue. | Apr 14 11:28 |
| tk009 | we are gridlocked again lol | Apr 14 11:28 |
| adamw | but no-one seems to be clinging to their position like grim death | Apr 14 11:29 |
| tk009 | no they don't | Apr 14 11:29 |
| tk009 | I can if you like =) | Apr 14 11:29 |
| adamw | hehe | Apr 14 11:29 |
| tk009 | 30 days and close | Apr 14 11:29 |
| tk009 | that is what I would like | Apr 14 11:29 |
| tk009 | I ma sticking to that | Apr 14 11:29 |
| poelcat | one way around this is to let the triager decide how nice they want to be | Apr 14 11:29 |
| tk009 | yes | Apr 14 11:29 |
| poelcat | w/ a set minimum of 30 days | Apr 14 11:29 |
| adamw | good point | Apr 14 11:29 |
| adamw | maybe those who want to close after 30 can | Apr 14 11:29 |
| adamw | but the 'group standard' will be 30+30, so if we have enough people at some point to do a regular stale NEEDINFO sweep, that will be how they handle it | Apr 14 11:30 |
| poelcat | i like it | Apr 14 11:30 |
| arxs | +1 | Apr 14 11:30 |
| adamw | alright! kudos poelcat | Apr 14 11:30 |
| adamw | anyone opposed? | Apr 14 11:30 |
| tk009 | moving on =) | Apr 14 11:31 |
| iarlyy | it's ok for me | Apr 14 11:31 |
| tk009 | 4) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Beland/Bugzilla_Legend - Status report on the progress with this page and Adam's -devel email. I could have missed it but I didn't see the email yet on -devel. | Apr 14 11:31 |
| tk009 | afk a min bio | Apr 14 11:31 |
| adamw | sorry, yeah, i didn't get it done yet | Apr 14 11:31 |
| adamw | had a short week last week | Apr 14 11:31 |
| adamw | i'll get it in soon I promise :) | Apr 14 11:31 |
| adamw | anything else on that topic? | Apr 14 11:32 |
| poelcat | not from me | Apr 14 11:32 |
| tk009 | I don't have anything on that either | Apr 14 11:33 |
| tk009 | jsut wondering if i had missed something | Apr 14 11:34 |
| adamw | nope, don't think so - beland's not here so he can't talk about anything he's done... | Apr 14 11:34 |
| tk009 | the last thing then is the stock responses | Apr 14 11:34 |
| tk009 | I didn't finish going through them | Apr 14 11:34 |
| tk009 | but will have that done by my close of the day | Apr 14 11:34 |
| adamw | alright | Apr 14 11:35 |
| tk009 | and what is a first in the time I've been here, we have time left | Apr 14 11:35 |
| adamw | i feel like last night i thought of something i wanted to mention in the meeting and now i don't remember it at all | Apr 14 11:35 |
| adamw | i'll let you know if it comes to mind :) | Apr 14 11:35 |
| tk009 | open floor if anyone has something they want to say | Apr 14 11:36 |
| adamw | any of our new members here? how's everything going for you guys? | Apr 14 11:36 |
| tk009 | I don't think any are here atm | Apr 14 11:36 |
| poelcat | in a few weeks | Apr 14 11:36 |
| poelcat | we'll need to start working on this BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Fedora11 | Apr 14 11:36 |
| arxs | very good | Apr 14 11:37 |
| *comphappy did not have time to get metics packaged for the fedora server sorry | Apr 14 11:37 | |
| *tk009 thinks its not hte 16th. yet =) | Apr 14 11:37 | |
| poelcat | i will take the lead with filing the tickets with red hat, etc. | Apr 14 11:37 |
| tk009 | I have wondered how that all is done | Apr 14 11:38 |
| tk009 | jds2001 did it last time I think | Apr 14 11:38 |
| poelcat | tk009: described here BugZappers/HouseKeeping#Task_Breakdown | Apr 14 11:38 |
| poelcat | we've done it together since the beginning | Apr 14 11:38 |
| tk009 | well I know we've kind of lost jds2001 | Apr 14 11:39 |
| poelcat | nothing to discuss today, but since we had time just wanted to get it out there | Apr 14 11:39 |
| adamw | arxs: great | Apr 14 11:39 |
| poelcat | we've done it several times now so most of the wording is probably solid for the notifications | Apr 14 11:40 |
| poelcat | but can always be improved :) | Apr 14 11:40 |
| poelcat | that's all i've got for today | Apr 14 11:40 |
| tk009 | same for me, anyone else have anything? | Apr 14 11:40 |
| arxs | i workes on 90 bugs sine last week. hope dcbw is happy with my work | Apr 14 11:40 |
| adamw | arxs: awesome! great job | Apr 14 11:40 |
| tk009 | email him and ask him | Apr 14 11:40 |
| adamw | arxs: have you checked with him? | Apr 14 11:40 |
| arxs | yes by mail and irc but dont get a clear answer | Apr 14 11:41 |
| tk009 | busy maybe | Apr 14 11:41 |
| arxs | on the other hand jessy, the other triager is very happy with my work | Apr 14 11:41 |
| tk009 | if it wasnt bad you are fine is y guess | Apr 14 11:41 |
| adamw | yeah, i think if dan had any problems he would've mentioned it :) | Apr 14 11:42 |
| adamw | he's not the shy retiring wallflower type, hehe | Apr 14 11:42 |
| tk009 | nope lol | Apr 14 11:42 |
| arxs | ok. good to now | Apr 14 11:42 |
| tk009 | okay, I guess that is it then | Apr 14 11:42 |
| arxs | know i mean | Apr 14 11:42 |
| tk009 | thank you all for coming =) | Apr 14 11:43 |
| adamw | yep...we're done early, everyone go for the donuts. oh, wait, irc meetings have no donuts | Apr 14 11:43 |
| adamw | curses | Apr 14 11:43 |
| tk009 | and don't forget triage day is after the meeting | Apr 14 11:43 |
| adamw | yep | Apr 14 11:43 |
| adamw | not sure if we have any new folks today but people can get together to work or triage or blocker bugs | Apr 14 11:43 |
| arxs | of course | Apr 14 11:43 |
| adamw | i will be around but probably not too active, i have a gigantic pile of mail to catch up with from the long weekend | Apr 14 11:43 |
| tk009 | I do as well | Apr 14 11:44 |
| tk009 | but want to get together on the blockers | Apr 14 11:44 |
| tk009 | so when its good for you let e know please | Apr 14 11:44 |
| tk009 | me* | Apr 14 11:44 |
| adamw | ok | Apr 14 11:44 |
| tk009 | damn that M key | Apr 14 11:44 |
| adamw | if a discussion starts up while i'm not around send me a ping | Apr 14 11:44 |
| tk009 | kk | Apr 14 11:44 |
| tk009 | that is it for the meeting then, back to work everyone =) | Apr 14 11:45 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!