From Fedora Project Wiki
I18N Project Meeting 2009-01-20 Minutes
- 2009-01-20 0500 UTC on #fedora-meeting at Freenode
Agenda
Please add agenda items or propose to fedora-i18n-list ahead of the meeting.
- Features/IBus -- JensPetersen
- Yum langpacks extension -- JensPetersen
- Extending input-methods with emoticons and other unicode chars -- PravinSatpute
- default vfat fs encoding in F11 kernel (should the utf8 patch be removed? and be sure it's fixed in [hal or devicekit rhbz #470592]) -- User:Alsadi
- Fonts package renaming
- Language tagging in toolkits of input text for correct rendering and spelling-checking -- nim-nim
- Next meeting
Log
| juhp | I18N/Meetings | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| juhp | okay I make time now | 15:00 |
| juhp | so welcome to the first fedora-i18n meeting in a while | 15:00 |
| pravins | hi all | 15:00 |
| juhp | hopefully will be become more regular this year :) | 15:00 |
| sflanigan | g'day | 15:01 |
| phuang | hi | 15:01 |
| juhp | hi guys | 15:01 |
| paragn | hi | 15:01 |
| juhp | who else is participating in the meeting? | 15:01 |
| jamesni | hi | 15:01 |
| tagoh3 | hi | 15:01 |
| Kaio | hi | 15:02 |
| juhp | we have an agenda for the meeting I18N/Meetings#Agenda | 15:02 |
| juhp | let's get started | 15:02 |
| juhp | * IBus feature | 15:02 |
| dychen_ | hi | 15:02 |
| juhp | first topic is ibus feature for f11 | 15:02 |
| juhp | phuang is pushing ahead with ibus for f11 | 15:03 |
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| juhp | yesterday we switched comps to ibus so that tomorrow's rawhide should default now to ibus rather than scim | 15:03 |
| phuang | juhp, thanks | 15:04 |
| juhp | Features/IBus has been moved to ready for fesco - so will be good to get feedback from them on the plan | 15:04 |
| juhp | :) | 15:05 |
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| juhp | there is still quite a lot of work to do to complete the feature work in time for beta | 15:06 |
| *asgeirf attempts to sneak in a slightly delayed 'hi!' | 15:06 | |
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| juhp | phuang: it is very important that the feature is completed in good time for the beta if it is going to be in f11:) | 15:07 |
| juhp | I think dychen_ and Kaio will be doing some work on the engines | 15:08 |
| phuang | juhp, Yeah. I will do my best to achieve it | 15:08 |
| juhp | phuang: btw I was curious how easy do you think it is to write an engine in a language other than C or python? | 15:08 |
| juhp | phuang: thanks | 15:08 |
| dychen_ | Yes, current I am workin on the building problem between libChewing and ibus-python. | 15:08 |
| Kaio | juhp☺ mainly ibus-table, and ibus-anthy | 15:08 |
| juhp | dychen_: great | 15:08 |
| juhp | Kaio: sounds good | 15:08 |
| juhp | if you have comments on the plan now or on the talk page would be a good time/place to do that too | 15:09 |
| dychen_ | juhp, as soon as my libUnihan-iBus interface ready, they can use SQL table as engine. :-) | 15:09 |
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| phuang | juhp, It is not very hard. I could provide some libraries for other languages to make it easy. | 15:09 |
| juhp | phuang: ok - np was just thinking about that | 15:10 |
| juhp | in fact there are already a few comments there | 15:10 |
| juhp | Talk:Features/IBus | 15:10 |
| phuang | juhp, Currently, developers can only use dbus wrappers directly in other languages. | 15:10 |
| juhp | first one I was discussing with nim-nim and it is big and outside the scope of f11 so I moved it to another agenda item | 15:11 |
| juhp | phuang: ok - so for c/python there is a nicer api, right? | 15:11 |
| juhp | second item I answered on fedora-devel-list earlier | 15:12 |
| juhp | phuang: any comment on third question - about remote X support? | 15:12 |
| juhp | I imagine it would be similar situation to scim | 15:13 |
| phuang | yeah. DBus is transparency in c & python | 15:13 |
| juhp | ok | 15:13 |
| juhp | any other discussion on this important topic before we move on? | 15:13 |
| juhp | so aim is to have C implemention in rawhide before Beta so that it can be tested enough for final f11 | 15:14 |
| <--rahulb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | 15:14 | |
| phuang | Remote X session could have a remote ibus daemon, or use locale ibus via XIM | 15:14 |
| juhp | okay | 15:14 |
| juhp | phuang: can you follow? and I can take care of the other two | 15:15 |
| pravins | juhp: when we suppose to develop scim-sinhala etc for ibus? | 15:15 |
| juhp | pravins: good question - how important do you think it is? | 15:16 |
| pravins | phuang: what you think? | 15:16 |
| juhp | pravins: at least we have maps for Sinhala in m17n like Indic langs but of course in long term would like to see more IMEs | 15:16 |
| juhp | currently it is not default for Sinhala and not installed by default in distro anyway fwiw | 15:16 |
| juhp | the default, I mean | 15:17 |
| pravins | aha | 15:17 |
| phuang | juhp, yeah. We have the map in m17n. | 15:17 |
| juhp | it was earlier I think | 15:17 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: is there any languages not supported by ibus right now? | 15:17 |
| tagoh3 | which was supported by scim | 15:17 |
| juhp | tagoh3: I can think of any off hand particularly | 15:18 |
| juhp | of course there are more IMEs available at this time still for scim | 15:18 |
| juhp | then again m17n handles nearly all langs | 15:19 |
| juhp | but I don't think we lose any default IMEs by moving to ibus | 15:19 |
| juhp | for langs that use IM | 15:19 |
| juhp | shall we move on? | 15:20 |
| phuang | ok | 15:20 |
| juhp | # Yum langpacks extension | 15:20 |
| juhp | okay asgeirf pointed out to me the recent discussion on fedora-devel-list about comps | 15:21 |
| juhp | and actually notting posted a prototype yum plugin that is close to this idea | 15:21 |
| juhp | so probably I will see if that can be used to solve the long-standing issue with getting conditional packages like langpacks installed | 15:22 |
| ---knurd_afk is now known as knurd | 15:22 | |
| juhp | I was even pondering a feature for it, but glad to see that other people also see the importance of this and getting rid of the language support conditional nonsense eventually hopefully | 15:23 |
| juhp | hope this can be improved for f11 anyway | 15:24 |
| juhp | # Extending input-methods with emoticons and other unicode chars -- PravinSatpute | 15:24 |
| juhp | I might call this submodes (or minor modes in the sense of emacs) for input methods | 15:25 |
| pravins | :) ->☺ U+263A | 15:25 |
| pravins | :( -> ☹ U+2639 | 15:25 |
| juhp | yeah | 15:25 |
| juhp | I would like to have a nice unicode input method in m17n or ibus more probably | 15:25 |
| juhp | but mixing of IMEs is very interesting | 15:26 |
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| juhp | a bit like combining xkb maps I guess | 15:26 |
| juhp | phuang et al: any thoughts on that | 15:26 |
| phuang | juhp, It is good | 15:27 |
| juhp | we probably won't do it for f11 say unless it is easy but interesting idea for the future | 15:27 |
| phuang | juhp, yeah. | 15:27 |
| pravins | yeah | 15:28 |
| asgeirf | it would certainly get IMs more exposure :) | 15:28 |
| juhp | it would certainly do something that other OSes can't | 15:28 |
| juhp | asgeirf: right that too | 15:28 |
| phuang | pravins, currently, ibus gtk im module, could do this. But qt im moudule & xim can not | 15:28 |
| juhp | in fact I think we need to think about how to deal with xkb - a lot of people have talked about this | 15:28 |
| juhp | the current dichotomy is quite ugly | 15:28 |
| juhp | to us anyway - there should just be keyboard layouts and everything else should be an input method ;) | 15:29 |
| phuang | juhp, I think we could let ibus to manage xkb. But I still need do more investigation on xkb. | 15:30 |
| juhp | phuang: how does ibus-gtk deal with xkb issue again? | 15:30 |
| juhp | okay | 15:30 |
| juhp | that would be good | 15:30 |
| juhp | pravins: in the mean time you could write an input map for emoticons, etc | 15:31 |
| juhp | might catch on in irc... :) | 15:31 |
| pravins | juhp: surely i will try for that | 15:31 |
| juhp | great | 15:31 |
| pravins | but :) and :( these are very common | 15:31 |
| juhp | yeah | 15:32 |
| pravins | and we can add these in existing mim files | 15:32 |
| juhp | and things like arrows, and what not | 15:32 |
| juhp | pravins: yeah but not everyone may want them that i the problem | 15:32 |
| juhp | is | 15:32 |
| pravins | hmm | 15:32 |
| phuang | pravins, yeah. maybe we could create a common mim file for it. And let others include it. Is it possible? | 15:32 |
| juhp | or some conditional configure way of combining m17n maps | 15:33 |
| pravins | phuang: yeah, that is also nice | 15:33 |
| juhp | configuration | 15:33 |
| pravins | yes we can start something like that | 15:33 |
| juhp | pravins: thanks for bringing it up | 15:33 |
| pravins | juhp: welcome :) | 15:34 |
| juhp | # default vfat fs encoding in F11 -- User:Alsadi | 15:34 |
| juhp | default vfat fs encoding in F11 kernel (should the utf8 patch be removed? and be sure it's fixed in [hal or devicekit rhbz #470592]) | 15:34 |
| juhp | is Alsadi here? | 15:35 |
| juhp | I think he wanted to bring attention to this issue | 15:35 |
| juhp | it is really something more for the desktop team I guess but we can help to try to get a satisfactory solution for international users | 15:35 |
| juhp | just to summarise: I believe a fedora kernel patch to change the default encoding for vfat mount to utf-8 was reverted since it changed the behaviour for the fedora kernel compared to upstream and caused problems | 15:37 |
| juhp | I Alsadi is suggesting that the hal should nevertheless be made to mount with utf8 by default so that filenames in utf8 appear correctly | 15:38 |
| juhp | filename encoding are fun... | 15:38 |
| juhp | will try to keep an eye on it | 15:38 |
| juhp | # Fonts package renaming | 15:39 |
| juhp | this is in progress | 15:39 |
| juhp | how are people here doing with it | 15:39 |
| juhp | the latest version changes the naming convention from *-fonts-* to *-*-fonts | 15:40 |
| juhp | rahul_b, pravins, Kaio, tagoh3, juhp all have fonts | 15:40 |
| Kaio | juhp☺ yes | 15:41 |
| juhp | I confess to not having updated thaifonts-scalable will do that this week | 15:41 |
| tagoh3 | not yet finished for {sazanami,hanazono,vlgothic}-fonts. | 15:41 |
| juhp | tagoh3: so vlgothic is getting downcased too? | 15:41 |
| Kaio | talk to nim-nim if need anyth | 15:41 |
| rahul_b | I have lot to do with culmus and amy be even lohit fonts | 15:42 |
| juhp | tagoh3: including the base package? | 15:42 |
| pravins | not finished yet for samyak-fonts and smc-fonts | 15:42 |
| juhp | rahul_b: ok better do lohit first I guess | 15:42 |
| rahul_b | have been waiting for final guidelines for that | 15:42 |
| juhp | good thinking | 15:42 |
| juhp | they seem to be settling down now finally ;) | 15:42 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: no, not at all | 15:42 |
| juhp | tagoh3: ah ok so still VLGothic-fonts? | 15:43 |
| tagoh3 | right | 15:43 |
| juhp | good | 15:43 |
| juhp | nim-nim was keen earlier to downcase ;-) | 15:43 |
| juhp | maybe another say ;-P | 15:43 |
| juhp | I hope by next meeting we will have finished the fonts stuff anyway :) | 15:44 |
| juhp | # Language tagging in toolkits of input text for correct rendering and spelling-checking -- nim-nim | 15:44 |
| juhp | mailhot put forward an interesting proposal which behdad also seems to buy | 15:45 |
| juhp | first described on the ibus feature talk page | 15:45 |
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| juhp | but after discussing it earlier on #fedora-devel I think I understand it now too and agree that it sounds attracture | 15:45 |
| juhp | erm attractive | 15:46 |
| rahul_b | how does it work? | 15:46 |
| rahul_b | from input method, or apps will handle on their own? | 15:46 |
| juhp | basically the idea is that through the important method (probably) one specifies the language of input | 15:46 |
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| juhp | rahul_b: well the exact details are still open under discussion | 15:47 |
| pravins | rahul_b: might be adding language property field | 15:47 |
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| juhp | im will then communicate this to the app as a language hint which it can use to set the rendering language and which dictionary to use to spellcheck the input | 15:48 |
| asgeirf | so this will in other words be like e.g. OpenOffice does, but on a desktop-level? | 15:48 |
| juhp | so even if one is not running English desktop say one could still have english spellchecking easily in apps when one wants | 15:48 |
| juhp | asgeirf: right | 15:48 |
| juhp | well openoffice allows setting fonts I guess? | 15:49 |
| tagoh3 | asgeirf: at least that sounds like not something can be fixed in one. | 15:49 |
| juhp | or importantly for CJK users can specific which Han language (script) they are using | 15:50 |
| juhp | well doing it for gtk/gnome might be possible but it sounds complicated | 15:50 |
| juhp | it needs to be discussed upstream for anything to happen | 15:50 |
| juhp | mclasen was also listening | 15:50 |
| asgeirf | KDE4 had a feature called 'sonnet' which was supposed to do language detection and stuff... not sure if it was ever included though... | 15:51 |
| juhp | aha interesting | 15:51 |
| juhp | ok | 15:52 |
| juhp | any other last topics before we draw to a close? | 15:52 |
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| juhp | I propose to have another meeting here in two weeks time - should be a lot of fedora 11 topics by then I guess after testing alpha :) | 15:53 |
| juhp | okay if there are no more comments or topics then let's close the meeting | 15:54 |
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| juhp | thanks to everyone who joined in | 15:55 |
| juhp | # (fedora-i18n meeting closed) | 15:55 |
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