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Meeting
Time: 2009-09-01 0500 UTC
Place: #fedora-meeting on Freenode
Agenda:
- Releases/12/Schedule
- Bugs corner: rawhide bugs
- Harfbuzz Indic Test Suit
Summary
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-01/fedora-meeting.2009-09-01-05.00.html
- 76 open rawhide bugs
- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=518395: add @input-methods to Package Selection screen
- fontconfig-2.7.2 in rawhide and f11 update
- splitting up lohit-fonts
- new ibus icon
- harfbuzz indic test suit
- FTBFS for knm_new-fonts, fonts-ISO8859-2, UnihanDb
- ibus-anthy icon
Log
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-01/fedora-meeting.2009-09-01-05.00.log.html
| juhp | #startmeeting i18n | 05:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Tue Sep 1 05:00:06 2009 UTC. The chair is juhp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:00 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 05:00 |
| dychen | hi juhp | 05:00 |
| tagoh3 | hi | 05:00 |
| pravins | hi juhp | 05:00 |
| fujiwarat | hi | 05:00 |
| juhp | hi guys | 05:01 |
| juhp | welcome to our biweekly i18n meeting | 05:01 |
| phuang_ | hi | 05:02 |
| juhp | #topic I18N/Meetings/2009-09-01 | 05:03 |
| juhp | oops | 05:04 |
| juhp | #topic F12 | 05:04 |
| juhp | beta freeze is at the end of this month - so about 4 hours of devel left | 05:04 |
| juhp | ugh 4 months, lol | 05:04 |
| juhp | this getting silly - 4 WEEKS | 05:05 |
| juhp | any concerns about f12 schedule? | 05:05 |
| dychen | juhp: What's our features in F-12? | 05:06 |
| juhp | I guess there are still various work/features we might hope to land this month - various some ibus improvements, yum plugin, xkb maps for indic inscript? | 05:08 |
| juhp | any others I am forgetting? | 05:08 |
| juhp | dychen: hmm might be good to list then for f13 on the wiki beyond official fedora features | 05:09 |
| juhp | if no comments then let's move on | 05:09 |
| juhp | #topic rawhide bugs | 05:10 |
| juhp | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?product=Fedora&version=rawhide&bug_status=__open__&emailassigned_to2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=exact&email2=fedora-i18n-bugs@redhat.com | 05:10 |
| juhp | 76 open rawhide bugs we own or are tracking | 05:10 |
| juhp | anyone have any particular issues they want to discuss? | 05:11 |
| juhp | bug 518395 | 05:12 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=518395 medium, low, ---, anaconda-maint-list, NEW, add @input-methods to Package Selection screen | 05:12 |
| juhp | looking increasingly unlikely | 05:12 |
| dychen | juhp: So we still install every im by default? :-P | 05:14 |
| juhp | that is what we are still doing for now | 05:14 |
| juhp | I don't really want to make any change until we have a reliable easy way of doing post-install | 05:15 |
| juhp | perhaps we should just add a uninstall script to ibus ;-P | 05:15 |
| tagoh3 | heh | 05:16 |
| juhp | I noticed that ubuntu actually does something like that on their live spins: removing unwanted packages at the end | 05:17 |
| juhp | of installation | 05:17 |
| juhp | but anyway | 05:17 |
| juhp | might make sense to uninstall IMEs for other langs at that time but that is another issue | 05:17 |
| juhp | tagoh3: do you think it is worth the pain to turn off @input-methods for f12? | 05:18 |
| dychen | juhp: But users have to specify want/unwant at some point anyway. | 05:19 |
| juhp | indeed | 05:19 |
| juhp | dychen: they can still do going down into the package customization menu | 05:19 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: hmm, dunno. it may depends on how many people uses IM on non-CIJK languages. | 05:20 |
| juhp | of course appearing on the top-level would be much easier - though it doesn't solve the I only want one IME problem | 05:20 |
| juhp | tagoh3: enough to make their questions common anyway iirc | 05:21 |
| dychen | juhp: Not sure it is appropriate to specify the IM on regional setting. | 05:22 |
| dychen | Kaio: What does Window 7/Vista do about this issue? | 05:22 |
| phuang_ | dychen, it is a solution | 05:22 |
| juhp | dychen: yeah perhaps better not to install and auto-install on login? though it is a bit annoying | 05:23 |
| juhp | dychen: region setting? | 05:23 |
| dychen | phuang_: Yeah , I think Win XP (and 2000 maybe) do in that way. | 05:23 |
| juhp | anyway I am proposing to postpone this to f13... | 05:23 |
| phuang_ | dychen, I think Window has different localization versions. And each version will install default IME for the location | 05:23 |
| juhp | right | 05:24 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: yeah.. and that requires restarting desktop.. | 05:24 |
| juhp | hmm | 05:24 |
| dychen | phuang_: They do, and for english version, you can also set IM in region setting. | 05:24 |
| juhp | tagoh3: can't we starting ibus after that? | 05:24 |
| juhp | and imsettings | 05:25 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: we can if we don't care of xim | 05:25 |
| juhp | ah yeah | 05:25 |
| juhp | well maybe for first session it is ok | 05:26 |
| phuang_ | dychen, yeah. But it does't install IMEs in install-time. Or maybe installed some, but does not enable any ime | 05:26 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: or we can't - guess imsettings won't be installed without IM deps, so far at least. | 05:26 |
| dychen | phuang_: Yes they do. You can tick the Asian language support during the installation. | 05:28 |
| juhp | tagoh3: perhaps we could install imsettings by default? | 05:28 |
| juhp | anyway | 05:29 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: yep | 05:29 |
| dychen | phuang_: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/operatingsystems/ss/installxpnew2_3.htm | 05:29 |
| phuang_ | dychen, right | 05:29 |
| juhp | how is rawhide fontconfig? | 05:30 |
| paragan | we got new fontconfig-2.7.2 in rawhide now | 05:30 |
| juhp | bug 518161 | 05:30 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=518161 medium, low, ---, besfahbo, NEW, "contains" expression seems not working on the fontconfig rule | 05:30 |
| paragan | will be testing it with new lohit-fonts-2.4.2 | 05:31 |
| * juhp notes it is being pushed to f11 too | 05:31 | |
| juhp | paragan: cool | 05:31 |
| paragan | yes | 05:31 |
| juhp | (should be interesting;) | 05:31 |
| paragan | we also plan to split lohit-fonts in per font tarball release | 05:32 |
| juhp | hmm guess devel might have been enough for now ;) | 05:32 |
| juhp | paragan: aha | 05:32 |
| paragan | yes devel is enough for now | 05:33 |
| juhp | (I meant fontconfig:) | 05:33 |
| juhp | anyway hope there is time to test fontconfig in rawhide before f11 gets pushed... | 05:33 |
| paragan | yes | 05:34 |
| juhp | wonder if that is the only change | 05:34 |
| pravins | splitting lohit-fonts will be really good for maintenance as well | 05:34 |
| juhp | pravins: ok - sounds good then :) | 05:35 |
| paragan | juhp, I see changelog which shows 10 commits since 2.7.1 | 05:35 |
| juhp | aha | 05:35 |
| paragan | 3 of them for Windows | 05:36 |
| juhp | hm | 05:36 |
| pravins | next topic ^^ | 05:40 |
| juhp | phuang_: the new ibus icon looks different! | 05:40 |
| phuang_ | juhp, You saw the new icon? | 05:41 |
| juhp | yeah :) | 05:41 |
| phuang_ | juhp, I have built the new ibus include the new icons | 05:41 |
| juhp | different to the old one I mean :) | 05:41 |
| juhp | thanks | 05:41 |
| juhp | just getting used to it :) | 05:41 |
| phuang_ | No | 05:41 |
| juhp | ? | 05:41 |
| phuang_ | Just installed a set of icons in different size | 05:42 |
| juhp | aha | 05:42 |
| phuang_ | The last ibus uses 48x48, so the it looks not good | 05:42 |
| juhp | ok | 05:42 |
| juhp | any other topics to discuss today? | 05:43 |
| pravins | harfbuzz indic test suit | 05:43 |
| pravins | there are some discussion goind on harfbuzz list for making harfbuzz rendering engine compatible to new OT SPec | 05:44 |
| juhp | recent rawhide seems ok to me mostly - though I had to install from a old-ish image to avoid anaconda backtraces | 05:44 |
| pravins | same as Uniscribe | 05:44 |
| juhp | pravins: I see - interesting | 05:44 |
| juhp | does pango look ok? | 05:44 |
| pravins | so behdad requested test cases for indic | 05:44 |
| juhp | aha | 05:44 |
| pravins | he want o/p as >OUTPUT: <1,0,0>,<5,10,30> | 05:44 |
| pravins | >>Where the output tuples are glyph id, X and Y. | 05:44 |
| juhp | hm | 05:45 |
| pravins | anyone knows whats this glyph id and x, y?? | 05:45 |
| pravins | i was trying to prepare first draft for same | 05:45 |
| juhp | maybe better to ask? | 05:46 |
| pravins | hmm | 05:46 |
| pravins | but new OT specs 1.6 has lots of changes | 05:46 |
| pravins | many new feature tags are introduces in it | 05:47 |
| pravins | for indic script | 05:47 |
| pravins | might we will need to update lohit-fonts as well with this new feature may be | 05:47 |
| pravins | http://www.microsoft.com/typography/SpecificationsOverview.mspx | 05:48 |
| juhp | tagoh3: will we rename knm_new-fonts? | 05:48 |
| juhp | pravins: hmm dunno - guess it might be a lot of work? | 05:49 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: hmm, sure - I'm not still fully understanding though. | 05:50 |
| pravins | yeah, but firstly rendering engine need update w.r.t OT spec | 05:50 |
| juhp | ah yeah | 05:50 |
| juhp | pravins: not sure if/when that might happen? | 05:50 |
| pravins | this work is going on for harfbuzz | 05:51 |
| juhp | tagoh3: sounds like underscore breaks fontspackages, so might be easiest or as you mentioned do a workaround in package? | 05:52 |
| juhp | aha | 05:52 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: right | 05:52 |
| juhp | hope mailhot can fix droid issue before beta... | 05:52 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: well, that makes sense if we do get rid of any exceptions from the policy though. | 05:53 |
| juhp | tagoh3: aha - so there are already other exceptions? | 05:53 |
| tagoh3 | there are some - not font specific but in the package naming policy. | 05:53 |
| juhp | ok sure | 05:54 |
| juhp | tagoh3: is knm_new installed by default for ja now? | 05:54 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: I don't think so | 05:54 |
| juhp | ok | 05:54 |
| juhp | paragan: do FTBFS have to be priority/severity high?? | 05:55 |
| paragan | I guess no | 05:56 |
| paragan | cause we are having source but just its upstream verification can not be done as upstream url is down | 05:56 |
| juhp | paragan: for fonts-ISO8859-2 ? | 05:56 |
| paragan | oh! is it set to high? | 05:57 |
| juhp | all (3) of them, yes | 05:57 |
| juhp | dychen: any idea about UnihanDb? | 05:58 |
| paragan | then reporter considered it as High priority | 05:58 |
| juhp | paragan: they are filed by ftbfs :) | 05:58 |
| juhp | bug 511680 | 05:58 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=511680 high, high, ---, pnemade, ASSIGNED, FTBFS fonts-ISO8859-2-1.0-20.fc11 | 05:58 |
| juhp | bug 511482 | 05:59 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=511482 high, high, ---, dchen, ASSIGNED, FTBFS UnihanDb-5.1.0-7.fc11.1 | 05:59 |
| paragan | and that is nirik I guess | 05:59 |
| dychen | juhp: That's because it tooks too long to build. | 05:59 |
| juhp | please have a look anyway | 05:59 |
| juhp | dychen: haha | 05:59 |
| juhp | hmm | 05:59 |
| dychen | So I was profiling it. | 05:59 |
| juhp | ok | 05:59 |
| juhp | I see | 05:59 |
| juhp | please add a comment anyway | 05:59 |
| juhp | anyway let's stop the meeting here if noone has anything else needing attention? | 06:00 |
| fujiwarat | phuang_: tagoh3: Do you know any background of ibus-anthy icon? | 06:01 |
| juhp | fujiwarat: scim-anthy? | 06:01 |
| * paragan closed bug 511680 | 06:02 | |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=511680 high, high, ---, pnemade, CLOSED RAWHIDE, FTBFS fonts-ISO8859-2-1.0-20.fc11 | 06:02 |
| phuang_ | yeah | 06:02 |
| * juhp wishes we could change it to something more meaningful | 06:02 | |
| fujiwarat | It's crown icon. | 06:02 |
| phuang_ | ifrom scim-anthy | 06:02 |
| tagoh3 | from scim-anthy | 06:02 |
| juhp | fujiwarat: or you mean the upstream story? | 06:02 |
| phuang_ | I don't know why crown | 06:02 |
| fujiwarat | I checked anthy home page but there is no icon. | 06:03 |
| juhp | fujiwarat: translating, ashie-san wrote "don't ask... ever" iirc | 06:03 |
| juhp | in his blog long ago | 06:03 |
| juhp | or maybe on the mailing list? | 06:03 |
| fujiwarat | Personally I don't like the icon :) | 06:03 |
| juhp | fujiwarat: me neither | 06:03 |
| juhp | I encouraged tagoh3 to change it for fedora for scim-anthy ;-P | 06:04 |
| dychen | fujiwarat: You can "borrow" gcin's jp icon. :-P | 06:04 |
| tagoh3 | it should be a user contribution - just a hope to becomes a king of japanese IM IIRC | 06:04 |
| fujiwarat | tagoh3: thx | 06:04 |
| juhp | fujiwarat: how about stealing an icon from uim say? | 06:04 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: what's the icon? | 06:05 |
| juhp | like あ | 06:05 |
| fujiwarat | It's ok if it was suitable from scim-anthy. | 06:05 |
| fujiwarat | If it can be changed, I'd like to consider the design. | 06:05 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: it's not for IM icon but to indicate the input mode. they use the same crown for IME icon though. | 06:05 |
| juhp | anyway my "secret" disruptive plan is to try to get rid of the ibus IME icons completely if possible ;o) | 06:05 |
| juhp | do they? hmm | 06:06 |
| juhp | maybe I hid it or misremember perhaps | 06:06 |
| juhp | haven't played with uim in a while anyway | 06:07 |
| juhp | fujiwarat: anyway I support changing the ibus-anthy icon | 06:07 |
| tagoh3 | need to create new one from scratch if we want to replace | 06:07 |
| juhp | tagoh3: why? | 06:07 |
| juhp | fujiwarat: any ideas for a replacement? | 06:07 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: no better icons for _anthy_ I meant :) | 06:08 |
| juhp | I think あ icon would be an improvement | 06:08 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: aha - thought you don't like a crown anyway | 06:08 |
| juhp | I don't see a strong need for something anthy specific | 06:08 |
| juhp | tagoh3: I don't | 06:08 |
| fujiwarat | Yes, right. I just thought alphabet 'A' with red pen ;) | 06:09 |
| juhp | it is completely meaningless IMHO | 06:09 |
| juhp | fujiwarat: A for anthy? hmm I dunno | 06:09 |
| juhp | (the crown I meant) | 06:09 |
| juhp | maybe we just need a different UI anyway | 06:10 |
| juhp | at least the new ibus icon made me think so :-/ | 06:10 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: just imagine from "improvement" you are about to work on it which is based on a crown icon, but anyway. | 06:11 |
| fujiwarat | Probably we may discuss this later. I just wanted to know the background. | 06:11 |
| juhp | tagoh3: better crown? :) | 06:12 |
| tagoh3 | juhp: heh. you said you don't like a crown :) | 06:12 |
| juhp | fujiwarat: I agree if anthy adopted some meaningful icon that would be better | 06:12 |
| juhp | tagoh3: I just trying to parse :) | 06:13 |
| tagoh3 | sure | 06:13 |
| juhp | dunno I only suggested using something like uim's ja_hiragana.svg | 06:14 |
| juhp | fujiwarat: sure - hope we can ship something better that makes sense | 06:15 |
| fujiwarat | OK, I see. | 06:15 |
| juhp | thanks for bringing it up :) | 06:16 |
| juhp | #endmeeting | 06:17 |
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