From Fedora Project Wiki
16 Jul 2008 FDSCo Meeting Minutes
| stickster | <meeting> | 16 Jul 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| stickster | Roll call! | 16 Jul 15:01 |
| ianweller | 16 Jul 15:02 | |
| * ianweller none | 16 Jul 15:02 | |
| spevack | 16 Jul 15:03 | |
| * spevack is just an hour early for the fedora emea meeting :) | 16 Jul 15:03 | |
| ianweller | hell of a meeting, so it seems. ;)) | 16 Jul 15:03 |
| spevack | 16 Jul 15:03 | |
| * spevack wants to write a document entitled "how to be snarky in 8 easy steps" | 16 Jul 15:03 | |
| stickster | spevack: You just did it in 1, my friend | 16 Jul 15:03 |
| jsmith | 16 Jul 15:04 | |
| * jsmith sneaks in | 16 Jul 15:04 | |
| * stickster gives 60 seconds for straggler | 16 Jul 15:04 | |
| stickster | *stragglers | 16 Jul 15:04 |
| stickster | OK | 16 Jul 15:05 |
| --- stickster (n=nnnnnpfr@fedora/stickster) changed topic: Fedora Docs meeting -- agenda: DocsProject/Meetings -- Release Notes | 16 Jul 15:05 | |
| stickster | Did people get a chance to read my recent brain dump to the list? | 16 Jul 15:05 |
| nim-nim | I'll be in and out nearby if you need me | 16 Jul 15:05 |
| stickster | http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-July/msg00014.html | 16 Jul 15:06 |
| stickster | and http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-July/msg00024.html | 16 Jul 15:06 |
| stickster | Let me give you the big picture first | 16 Jul 15:07 |
| stickster | Release Notes are *IMPORTANT* | 16 Jul 15:07 |
| stickster | We have the best ones in the business. | 16 Jul 15:07 |
| stickster | The IRC ops use them *constantly* to help people | 16 Jul 15:07 |
| stickster | And they're at risk for F10 if we don't start doing work now. | 16 Jul 15:08 |
| stickster | We basically need several things: | 16 Jul 15:08 |
| stickster | 1. Update responsibility list for beats | 16 Jul 15:09 |
| stickster | 2. Revamp build process | 16 Jul 15:09 |
| stickster | Who can take the lead on flushing the beat ownership? That is, finding out if the person listed as a beat owner is still doing the job, and then updating our ownership record so we can find new people? | 16 Jul 15:11 |
| jsmith | 16 Jul 15:11 | |
| * jsmith is happy to help out with build process | 16 Jul 15:11 | |
| stickster | jsmith: Noted, awesome! | 16 Jul 15:11 |
| stickster | #1 is a simpler but just as important task | 16 Jul 15:11 |
| ianweller | i don't think i can commit to very many things right now until i figure out my work load at school when it starts in a month :( | 16 Jul 15:11 |
| stickster | ianweller: Understood. | 16 Jul 15:11 |
| * stickster realizes our attendance is light, and the people here right now can't do all the work. Part of this is "for the record." | 16 Jul 15:12 | |
| ianweller | for the record, get to work, people who aren't here. /me shakes fist | 16 Jul 15:12 |
| ianweller | ;) | 16 Jul 15:12 |
| stickster | that's one way to motivate :-D | 16 Jul 15:12 |
| stickster | Typically, mether ends up coming in and revamping all the release notes at the last minute because beat writers aren't there to do the work. The *concept* is strong. FWN proves it every week. | 16 Jul 15:13 |
| stickster | We need to execute the same strategy well, since we started the doggone concept. | 16 Jul 15:13 |
| stickster | OK, 'nuff said. jsmith, thanks for the offer of help for the build process, I'm going to take you up on it. | 16 Jul 15:14 |
| stickster | jsmith: Along those lines, I need help scoping the project and editing/entering milestones and tickets in Trac that are sensible and will help us track the work. | 16 Jul 15:14 |
| jsmith | OK... I'll do what I can. | 16 Jul 15:15 |
| jsmith | Haven't ever done much with trac before, but I'm happy to learn | 16 Jul 15:15 |
| stickster | jsmith: It's dead simple. | 16 Jul 15:15 |
| jsmith | Gotcha | 16 Jul 15:15 |
| stickster | jsmith: Let's take this offline and try and do a little bit either after this meeting, or agree on a scheduled time | 16 Jul 15:15 |
| jsmith | OK, sounds good | 16 Jul 15:15 |
| stickster | (at your convenience of course) | 16 Jul 15:15 |
| quaid | oi amigos | 16 Jul 15:15 |
| stickster | Anything further on Release Notes? | 16 Jul 15:16 |
| stickster | quaid: ^^ "Danger Will Robinson" message proceeding. | 16 Jul 15:16 |
| stickster | Oh lord. | 16 Jul 15:16 |
| stickster | *preceding. | 16 Jul 15:16 |
| stickster | OK | 16 Jul 15:16 |
| --- stickster (n=nnnnnpfr@fedora/stickster) changed topic: Fedora Docs meeting -- agenda: DocsProject/Meetings -- Project triage | 16 Jul 15:17 | |
| stickster | quaid: I hand the gavel to you sir | 16 Jul 15:17 |
| quaid | 16 Jul 15:17 | |
| * quaid up on the buffer now | 16 Jul 15:17 | |
| quaid | triage ... as in? | 16 Jul 15:17 |
| stickster | Two things immediately came to mind for me: | 16 Jul 15:17 |
| stickster | (1) Bugs in bugzilla, some languishing. Are the owned by people who can/will take care of them? | 16 Jul 15:18 |
| quaid | ah, hmm | 16 Jul 15:18 |
| stickster | (2) More generally, project progress. Compare and contrast FDP in 2003 to FDP in 2008. Are we achieving what we should as an official subproject? | 16 Jul 15:19 |
| quaid | heh, yeah | 16 Jul 15:19 |
| quaid | so, on the first | 16 Jul 15:19 |
| quaid | we need a triage effort on just that, yeah | 16 Jul 15:20 |
| quaid | 16 Jul 15:20 | |
| * quaid battling sudden ennui | 16 Jul 15:20 | |
| * stickster dumps link here for reference: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Fedora+Documentation&version=&component=&query_format=advanced&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=MODIFIED&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&fixed_in_type=allwordssubstr&fixed_in=&qa_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&qa_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&emailtype1=exact&email1=&emailtype2=exact&email2=&votes=&changedin=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= | 16 Jul 15:20 | |
| buggbot | (at bugzilla.redhat.com) | 16 Jul 15:21 |
| stickster | oh criminy | 16 Jul 15:21 |
| stickster | sorry :-D | 16 Jul 15:21 |
| stickster | Thank you buggbot | 16 Jul 15:21 |
| stickster | I spent about three hours or so a couple weekends back clearing out about half the bugs in my queue, which was useful | 16 Jul 15:22 |
| quaid | what about making next week's meeting a working meeting to triage bugs? | 16 Jul 15:23 |
| stickster | I'm down with that, anyone else available to help?" | 16 Jul 15:23 |
| jds2001 | did i hear you guys need triage?? :) | 16 Jul 15:23 |
| quaid | :D | 16 Jul 15:23 |
| stickster | jds2001: heh | 16 Jul 15:23 |
| stickster | jds2001: We need people. | 16 Jul 15:24 |
| stickster | jds2001: Hey wait... YOU'RE people!!! | 16 Jul 15:24 |
| nim-nim | jds2001: and fonts :p | 16 Jul 15:24 |
| quaid | jds2001: I was hesitating to ask, but take a look at that buggbot URL above to see the scope of the problem :) | 16 Jul 15:24 |
| stickster | quaid: In fairness, both these topics belong on the fedora-docs-list. But I had spammed the list enough this week and didn't want to overdo it. | 16 Jul 15:25 |
| quaid | yeah | 16 Jul 15:25 |
| quaid | ok, here, I'll email that next week meeting is bug triage | 16 Jul 15:25 |
| quaid | oh carp | 16 Jul 15:25 |
| quaid | 16 Jul 15:26 | |
| * quaid realized he probably won't be available next week | 16 Jul 15:26 | |
| jds2001 | it's unlikely that I can make most of these - I'm stretched pretty thin with $DAYJOB right now | 16 Jul 15:26 |
| stickster | jds2001: we were 1/2 kidding anyway, do not be troubled | 16 Jul 15:26 |
| quaid | but the triaging concepts will help | 16 Jul 15:26 |
| jds2001 | take as evidence that they had me working 1 week after being operated on :) | 16 Jul 15:26 |
| quaid | in terms of what is still viable, etc. | 16 Jul 15:26 |
| quaid | 16 Jul 15:27 | |
| * quaid mumbles about "they" | 16 Jul 15:27 | |
| stickster | quaid: Here's a directly applicable issue -- how long is our timeline for getting new contributors, via the stuff you're doing with Seneca? | 16 Jul 15:27 |
| jds2001 | if you need help (and have documentation about helping with the documentation :) ), I'm sure we'd be happy to | 16 Jul 15:27 |
| quaid | I don't think it meshes well with F10 early work :) | 16 Jul 15:27 |
| stickster | What is the date by which we would expect to see people coming in to Docs, and how many do you think that will be? | 16 Jul 15:27 |
| quaid | ok, like this -- upwards of 25 coming in to Fedora, but we can't guarantee the interest just within Docs; some may want to embed deeper in other areas with Docs as the tie-back | 16 Jul 15:28 |
| quaid | that is, these are (as usual) self-assigning entities :) | 16 Jul 15:28 |
| stickster | Hm. | 16 Jul 15:28 |
| quaid | our tasks list is a strong part of that | 16 Jul 15:28 |
| quaid | I set the goal of having tasks updated by early August | 16 Jul 15:29 |
| quaid | so we have a chance to get the Seneca wiki updated with links etc. throughout August | 16 Jul 15:29 |
| quaid | and Sep is when classes start | 16 Jul 15:29 |
| quaid | the goal then is to get ppl involved ASAP, right within the first weeks | 16 Jul 15:29 |
| quaid | so by end of Sep, fairly full involvement as a partial component of classwork | 16 Jul 15:29 |
| quaid | by Jan, all involvement == classwork (that is the co-op, work experience part of the class) | 16 Jul 15:30 |
| quaid | how does that mesh with other timelines? | 16 Jul 15:30 |
| stickster | Alpha is August 5. Beta is end of August iirc, and right now F10 final is still pegged for 29 Oct. | 16 Jul 15:30 |
| stickster | quaid: But all of those dates I just gave are not meaningful unless we know that someone(s) in that group will come in to help with our particular Docs targets. | 16 Jul 15:31 |
| stickster | i.e. help with relnote beat wrangling | 16 Jul 15:31 |
| stickster | with IG updates | 16 Jul 15:31 |
| quaid | I can reckon that, yes, someone will | 16 Jul 15:31 |
| stickster | with wiki gardening | 16 Jul 15:31 |
| quaid | I'm just saying it's hard to predict exact numbers :) | 16 Jul 15:32 |
| quaid | but this is partially up to us | 16 Jul 15:32 |
| stickster | Sure, but even two people would be about twice as many as we've had | 16 Jul 15:32 |
| quaid | if our task list is "relnotes, IG, wiki gardening" | 16 Jul 15:32 |
| quaid | then guess what people will be doing? | 16 Jul 15:32 |
| stickster | heh | 16 Jul 15:32 |
| stickster | right on. | 16 Jul 15:32 |
| quaid | yeah, so let's be careful about task scope; maybe be more granular in just those three areas? | 16 Jul 15:32 |
| stickster | yes, agreed. | 16 Jul 15:32 |
| quaid | and put all the other work (Sec Guide, User Guide, Admin Guide) as good for $later | 16 Jul 15:33 |
| stickster | The other issue, project status is... probably a timesuck in this meeting. | 16 Jul 15:34 |
| stickster | So I'm sorry I put it on there. I'll raise it on the list. | 16 Jul 15:34 |
| quaid | hmm, ok | 16 Jul 15:34 |
| quaid | looks like I'm not on booth duty on Wed at 1900, I'll just make sure Jack or Greg don't pull me in to some interesting discussion :) | 16 Jul 15:35 |
| quaid | 16 Jul 15:35 | |
| * quaid hopes there is good wifi at OSCON :/ | 16 Jul 15:35 | |
| fugolini | hi | 16 Jul 15:35 |
| fugolini | sorry but my internet connection didn't work | 16 Jul 15:35 |
| fugolini | is there someone? | 16 Jul 15:35 |
| fugolini | FAmSCo meeting | 16 Jul 15:36 |
| quaid | fugolini: in 24 minutes | 16 Jul 15:36 |
| quaid | Docs currently | 16 Jul 15:36 |
| fugolini | ops sorry | 16 Jul 15:36 |
| quaid | np | 16 Jul 15:36 |
| quaid | ok, so, bugs ... OK to do a working meeting next week | 16 Jul 15:36 |
| jsmith | Works for me... I won't be here :-( | 16 Jul 15:37 |
| stickster | yup. | 16 Jul 15:37 |
| quaid | and in the meantime, recruit heavily for beats | 16 Jul 15:37 |
| ianweller | brb | 16 Jul 15:37 |
| quaid | blog blog blog and so on | 16 Jul 15:37 |
| stickster | quaid: Yeah, I have a blog post open for it too. | 16 Jul 15:38 |
| quaid | each of us here needs to do recruiting across the board | 16 Jul 15:38 |
| stickster | let's double up | 16 Jul 15:38 |
| stickster | triple, even. | 16 Jul 15:38 |
| quaid | and track that progress on Docs/Beats/ | 16 Jul 15:38 |
| * stickster can't find beat assignment page... later. | 16 Jul 15:39 | |
| * stickster motions to move on | 16 Jul 15:39 | |
| jsmith | 16 Jul 15:39 | |
| * jsmith seconds the motion | 16 Jul 15:39 | |
| quaid | ok | 16 Jul 15:40 |
| quaid | I'm about to have to disappear | 16 Jul 15:40 |
| quaid | do we have anything else on the agend? or other biz? | 16 Jul 15:40 |
| --- stickster (n=nnnnnpfr@fedora/stickster) changed topic: Fedora Docs meeting -- agenda: DocsProject/Meetings -- Misc notese | 16 Jul 15:41 | |
| --- stickster (n=nnnnnpfr@fedora/stickster) changed topic: Fedora Docs meeting -- agenda: DocsProject/Meetings -- Misc notes | 16 Jul 15:41 | |
| stickster | odfpy and python-mwlib packages. | 16 Jul 15:41 |
| stickster | These give us the opportunity to turn MediaWiki into DocBook. About as effective as moin's was. | 16 Jul 15:41 |
| stickster | Which is to say, not awesome, but definitely passable. | 16 Jul 15:41 |
| * stickster also notes that MW is extensible in that we can mark extra tags. | 16 Jul 15:41 | |
| stickster | I wonder why we don't get a Simplified DocBook XML tagset available in MW and use it. | 16 Jul 15:42 |
| stickster | Then python-mwlib and odfpy could product X/HTML, ODT, and (later) PDF on demand | 16 Jul 15:42 |
| stickster | If ricky, ianweller, mmcgrath were listening in, they might be interested in such a thing. | 16 Jul 15:43 |
| stickster | I don't know if quaid is still here or not. | 16 Jul 15:44 |
| stickster | efo | 16 Jul 15:45 |
| stickster | oh crikey.... eof | 16 Jul 15:45 |
| jsmith | I like the idea... just have no idea on implementation details | 16 Jul 15:45 |
| stickster | jsmith: Basically, if it can be done with Python, then our Web geniuses like the folks above, and lmacken, G, and others could build an interface that would pump out the doc from the site. | 16 Jul 15:46 |
| stickster | And our doc editing would basically all become editing on MediaWiki. | 16 Jul 15:46 |
| stickster | However, that doesn't necessarily work for a couple guides like the Release Notes that need to be available in the build system, have really strict markup, etc. | 16 Jul 15:47 |
| stickster | But it would work for the vast majority of other stuff. | 16 Jul 15:47 |
| stickster | Anyway, worth a thought. | 16 Jul 15:48 |
| stickster | eof | 16 Jul 15:48 |
| herlo | 16 Jul 15:48 | |
| * herlo is late | 16 Jul 15:48 | |
| stickster | herlo: Just read the above, we figured everything out. | 16 Jul 15:48 |
| stickster | Peace in the Middle East at last! Aaahh. | 16 Jul 15:48 |
| herlo | if I was in MDT it would have worked actually | 16 Jul 15:49 |
| herlo | stickster: w00t! about time that happened. I thought we'd never have peace again! | 16 Jul 15:49 |
| * stickster gonna close the meeting unless someone has something further. | 16 Jul 15:49 | |
| stickster | AOB? | 16 Jul 15:49 |
| stickster | 15.. | 16 Jul 15:50 |
| stickster | 10.. | 16 Jul 15:50 |
| stickster | 5 | 16 Jul 15:50 |
| stickster | 4 | 16 Jul 15:50 |
| stickster | 3 | 16 Jul 15:50 |
| stickster | 2 | 16 Jul 15:50 |
| stickster | </meeting> | 16 Jul 15:50 |
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