From Fedora Project Wiki
| quaid | <meeting> | 12:01 |
|---|---|---|
| * ke4qqq is here | 12:02 | |
| quaid | ok, regadless of who can be here in real time | 12:03 |
| quaid | let's address what is lingering and get a schedule reset | 12:03 |
| quaid | DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting | 12:03 |
| quaid | ok, I'll be editing the task table as we go | 12:04 |
| quaid | first thing is meeting time ... | 12:04 |
| quaid | so what happened for those not paying attention, time rolled back after daylight savings in some parts of the world | 12:04 |
| quaid | and now 1900 UTC is an earlier time on local clocks, but we all keep trying to be here at the same time on our local clocks | 12:05 |
| -!- greg_72 [n=gergoe@94-21-25-252.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #fedora-docs | 12:05 | |
| quaid | we've always followed UTC and ate the problems in consideratio of being a global project | 12:05 |
| quaid | so ... I reckon we just need to rediscipline ourselves to the 'new' time, and need to send out reminders a day in advance | 12:06 |
| * quaid holds the mic open for a moment while he does wiki stuff in the bg | 12:07 | |
| quaid | sorry, network dropped for a moment | 12:11 |
| greg_72 | as I understand this is a meeting for the docs project right now. In spite of this, may I have a question? | 12:11 |
| quaid | greg_72: since we are a bit unorthodox with our meeting today by holding it in this channel, that seems fair -- go ahead | 12:11 |
| greg_72 | any experts on writing a docbook xml for a man page? my question is: in the file section, which docbook tag should I use for a file name and its description? | 12:13 |
| quaid | greg_72: I don't know off-hand, but you can see if anyone lurking sees the question. | 12:13 |
| quaid | all: what I'd like to do is schedule *next* meeting to cover: | 12:14 |
| quaid | * Lessons learned from F10 | 12:14 |
| quaid | * Plans for F11 | 12:14 |
| quaid | hopefully we'll have more people for input | 12:14 |
| quaid | as for today, I'm going to use the time productively to create our next few months plans | 12:14 |
| quaid | around CMS, git migration, and such | 12:15 |
| quaid | greg_72: if the man page stylesheets are using standard DocBook, it would probably be <filename>, not sure about description; have you been digging through the long list of tags on docbook.org? | 12:17 |
| * quaid Docs_Project_admin_tasks_for_experienced_contributors&action=edit | 12:17 | |
| -!- kennepede [n=pkennedy@65.122.67.200] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 12:19 | |
| greg_72 | quaid: I'm at http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/documentation/reference/html/refsect1.html do not see "filename". I am a newbie in docbook, take a look around | 12:20 |
| quaid | greg_72: http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/ | 12:22 |
| quaid | scroll down to the ". DocBook Element Reference" | 12:22 |
| quaid | each of those elements then has a page that shows what it can be a child of, what a parent of, and usage examples | 12:22 |
| ke4qqq | so did the publican v. toolchain choice get made? | 12:22 |
| greg_72 | quaid: thanks | 12:23 |
| ke4qqq | obviously (I think) we still did toolchain for F10, right? | 12:23 |
| quaid | ke4qqq: strategically, yes, i think so | 12:23 |
| quaid | but tactically, we had to pull back again for F10 | 12:23 |
| quaid | otoh, we now have more expertise, experience, and a better quality of Publican in F10 | 12:23 |
| ke4qqq | is there a publican session at fudcon yet? | 12:23 |
| quaid | but migrating to publican across the board and testing *all* needs is a good task. | 12:23 |
| quaid | ooh, don't think so | 12:23 |
| quaid | ke4qqq: can I put you on the spot for a moment? | 12:24 |
| quaid | as a newer to Docs contributor | 12:25 |
| ke4qqq | please | 12:25 |
| quaid | ok, so one of the big reasons for going with Publican is that it is an upstream project, wider user base over time, so we can contribute to it but not have to own the entire toolchain. | 12:25 |
| ke4qqq | k | 12:25 |
| quaid | however, we give up control and NIH stuff we know and such. | 12:25 |
| quaid | i.e., swap time tweaking out toolchain in favor of time tweaking on a cantankerous upstream. :) | 12:26 |
| quaid | so ... | 12:26 |
| quaid | in what you have witnessed the last few months | 12:26 |
| quaid | i.e., struggles with fedora-doc-utils and struggles with publican | 12:26 |
| quaid | on channel and on mailing list | 12:26 |
| quaid | which direction would you recommend? gut instinct, thought, etc. | 12:27 |
| ke4qqq | gut instinct says publican | 12:27 |
| ke4qqq | because docs are published - still a number of unanswered questions in my mind about it | 12:27 |
| * stickster returns from phone | 12:27 | |
| ke4qqq | but doc-utils seems to require instruction in black magic | 12:27 |
| ke4qqq | and incantations that are really long at times | 12:27 |
| ke4qqq | so it appears as more of a blackbox.... | 12:28 |
| ke4qqq | to me at least - granted the source is there, but I didn't have time to | 12:28 |
| ke4qqq | go look under the hood over the past few months | 12:28 |
| ke4qqq | and I suspect that parts of the toolchain that I didn't touch are even worse | 12:28 |
| * stickster agrees with ke4qqq that publican is the right way to go, even if it does a number of silly hacky things. | 12:29 | |
| stickster | Those will likely be worked out over time | 12:29 |
| stickster | especially if we put ours aside and devote any modicum of that time to helping with publican | 12:29 |
| stickster | And there's nothing saying we couldn't have a second toolchain project | 12:30 |
| ke4qqq | biab | 12:30 |
| stickster | But it would be truly secondary, imho. | 12:30 |
| * ke4qqq is back | 12:32 | |
| quaid | yay | 12:32 |
| quaid | I think we all concur then | 12:32 |
| quaid | stickster: yes, fedora-doc-utils can have a basic toolchain using whatever is on the system, but it is still useful for other reasons | 12:33 |
| stickster | certainly | 12:33 |
| * quaid adds 'Publican migration' to tasks | 12:33 | |
| stickster | we just won't concentrate on it for people who want to work on docs in FDP | 12:33 |
| quaid | ok | 12:35 |
| quaid | that's one of our "before FUDCon tasks" I think | 12:35 |
| quaid | then there is the s??? | 12:36 |
| * quaid back | 12:36 | |
| quaid | bittorrent ongoing seems to make ssh drop randomly | 12:36 |
| * quaid bets it's the Vonage QoS up LAN from him | 12:37 | |
| quaid | stickster: help me list out what we said we'd work on postF10 | 12:37 |
| quaid | (other than a lessons learned and F11 planning, for next week) | 12:37 |
| quaid | * CMS | 12:37 |
| ke4qqq | stickster: will there be a person at fudcon to teach us publican? | 12:37 |
| quaid | * quaid tells FDP about plans for growing the project | 12:38 |
| quaid | ke4qqq: jsmith, stickster, or I can probably do it | 12:38 |
| quaid | jsmith seems to have the most recent experience | 12:38 |
| stickster | I'm twisting jsmith-away's arm to be there :-) | 12:38 |
| stickster | quaid: * make damn sure important docs have a team behind them, or announce their droppage to the whole project | 12:39 |
| stickster | or (c) move them to wiki for prosperity | 12:39 |
| stickster | (blecch) | 12:39 |
| quaid | ok, what is a reasonable timeline for that? | 12:40 |
| stickster | by Dec. 15th, I'd say | 12:40 |
| stickster | No April surprises that way. | 12:40 |
| * quaid pondering on that | 12:41 | |
| quaid | maybe a soft drop for 15 Dec, and hard drop after FUDCon, a/k/a "Last Chanceville" | 12:41 |
| quaid | ? | 12:41 |
| ke4qqq | define 'important docs'? | 12:42 |
| quaid | um ... all of them? | 12:42 |
| ke4qqq | lol ok | 12:42 |
| quaid | well, we don't really have an extraneous ones | 12:43 |
| ke4qqq | is there a listing of docs we maintain, a canonical list? | 12:43 |
| quaid | ah, probably not exactly | 12:43 |
| stickster | The front page of the DocsProject had one I believe. | 12:44 |
| * quaid looking there now | 12:44 | |
| quaid | DocsProject#The_Documents | 12:44 |
| stickster | ke4qqq: Really, it's the sum of what you see at cvs.fedoraproject.org under "docs" cvsroot, and the release notes and IG. | 12:44 |
| quaid | but that's not entirely clear that way | 12:44 |
| stickster | and the selinux-guide assuming we're helping murray with that | 12:44 |
| -!- daMaestro [n=jon@fedora/damaestro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 12:45 | |
| quaid | stickster: here's a question ... does any document with the Fedora logo on it belong in FDP? | 12:45 |
| -!- daMaestro [n=jon@fedora/damaestro] has joined #fedora-docs | 12:45 | |
| stickster | Yes. | 12:45 |
| stickster | If it has the Fedora logo the FDP -- assuming one exists -- should be accountable for its accuracy and timeliness. | 12:46 |
| quaid | I concur. | 12:46 |
| stickster | If the FDP ceases to exist, then so should that guideline, and it means that whoever wants to publish under the Fedora logo is going to need to have some sort of charter to doso. | 12:46 |
| stickster | s/doso/do so/ | 12:46 |
| quaid | so that makes the Fedora SELinux User Guide within our purview | 12:46 |
| quaid | there is also all the 'Linux Deployment Guide' content now out there we can draw from | 12:47 |
| stickster | I think we should be incented to work on it because (1) it's current, (2) it's been gifted by someone who cared enough to put the time into it, and (3) that person (mdious) actually does hang out here and collaborate with us | 12:47 |
| quaid | +1 | 12:48 |
| * quaid reminds himself that guide needs some splash this release | 12:48 | |
| quaid | time for me to dust off the ol' blog and stuff | 12:48 |
| -!- dbewley1 [n=dlbewley@c-71-197-86-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-docs | 12:49 | |
| quaid | hey dbewley1 | 12:49 |
| quaid | ok, I've got that deadline and stuff in the tasks now | 12:50 |
| quaid | is that all the "now that F10 is done" stuff? | 12:50 |
| quaid | ok | 12:51 |
| dbewley1 | greets | 12:52 |
| * stickster is torn in several directions right now, sorry | 12:52 | |
| quaid | s'ok | 12:52 |
| quaid | one thing that is great btw ... | 12:52 |
| quaid | this release we had 3x the participation | 12:53 |
| quaid | cf. the last few releases | 12:53 |
| quaid | so our task is keeping and increasing momentum | 12:53 |
| quaid | v. 'drag it up from the mud with bootstraps' :) | 12:53 |
| * stickster brb, has to close down and ssh in from elsewhere | 12:53 | |
| quaid | actually, it might be more than 3x, but it's pretty significant in comparison | 12:53 |
| -!- stickster is now known as stickster_afk | 12:53 | |
| quaid | and man ... the bugs are rolling in for the IG and relnotes, that seems like more than usual | 12:54 |
| quaid | which is not intended as a negative reflection :) | 12:55 |
| quaid | I don't think we have more bugs than usual, just more interest in helping us fix them | 12:55 |
| ke4qqq | and thats a good thing | 12:56 |
| dbewley1 | should we not make any changes to F10 wiki relnotes at this point? Like including things from Common Bugs page? | 12:56 |
| quaid | dbewley1: wiki beats are done, all changes should be to the XML | 12:57 |
| quaid | dbewley1: good question in that we do want to discuss the plan for the next update of f-r-n package + web update | 12:58 |
| quaid | dbewley1: as for common bugs, if there needs to be changes in the relnotes, someone who cares about the bug needs to file a bug report | 12:58 |
| dbewley1 | quaid: that answers that. :) so edits should go on common bugs and features pages etc for now | 12:58 |
| quaid | one of the reasons for the wiki page is that it is easier to update than the relnotes; hopefully those bugs get fixed instead :) | 12:58 |
| quaid | dbewley1: yes | 12:58 |
| dbewley1 | quaid: no prob. just added something to common bugs earlier when someone wanted it on the relnotes | 12:58 |
| quaid | we can spin a new web update relatively easily, and there are some open bugs | 13:00 |
| quaid | be a good learning experience for anyone to do the fixes in the XML, then I can republish | 13:00 |
| ke4qqq | ohhh so would pushing the web updates | 13:01 |
| dbewley1 | that's a hill i don't have time to climb myself anytime soon :) learn git and docbook etc | 13:01 |
| * ke4qqq would like to watch in screen | 13:01 | |
| quaid | hmm, yeah | 13:02 |
| ke4qqq | though how much of that matters if we move to publican? | 13:03 |
| quaid | or using 'script' and publishing it out | 13:03 |
| quaid | well, good question | 13:03 |
| quaid | actually, it all still applies | 13:03 |
| quaid | it's the CMS that replaces the web publishing | 13:04 |
| ke4qqq | hmmmm ok | 13:05 |
| quaid | and ... man, it's some deep black magic again, not sure I want to waste anyone else's braincells :) | 13:05 |
| ke4qqq | perhaps it's time better spent learning the CMS | 13:06 |
| quaid | yeah | 13:07 |
| -!- mhideo [n=mhideo@nat/redhat/x-81ad4e02dde4f83c] has joined #fedora-docs | 13:08 | |
| quaid | ok, tasks updated for moving forward | 13:12 |
| quaid | Docs_Project_admin_tasks_for_experienced_contributors | 13:12 |
| * quaid actually wrote 'moving forward' darnit | 13:12 | |
| -!- kennepede [n=pkennedy@pkennedy.dsl.visi.com] has joined #fedora-docs | 13:15 | |
| quaid | ok, that's enough for the day :) | 13:16 |
| quaid | anything else or shall I close the meeting loop? | 13:17 |
| * quaid does a countdown in his head | 13:17 | |
| quaid | done! | 13:18 |
| quaid | </meeting> | 13:18 |
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