From Fedora Project Wiki
| quaid | <meeting id="Docs team"> | 14:01 |
|---|---|---|
| * quaid still hoping for zodbot meeting logging :) | 14:01 | |
| Sparks | +1 | 14:02 |
| quaid | le roll call? | 14:02 |
| * Sparks is present | 14:02 | |
| -!- John5342 [n=john5342 fedora/John5342] has joined #fedora-meeting | 14:02 | |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg : | 14:03 | |
| DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_14_January_2008 | ||
| FUDCon results | ||
| quaid | I'm here too | 14:03 |
| * quaid makes a sound of crickets chirping | 14:03 | |
| quaid | ok then | 14:04 |
| Sparks | Where is everyone? | 14:04 |
| quaid | refering to | 14:04 |
| Docs_Project_tasks_during_FUDConF11 | ||
| quaid | dunno | 14:05 |
| -!- fozzmoo [n=fozz 209 41 95 5] has joined #fedora-meeting | 14:05 | |
| * laubersm here | 14:06 | |
| quaid | since I just did the 'hit their nick thing' we can wait a | 14:06 |
| moment | ||
| * quaid forgets how useful that is | 14:06 | |
| -!- jsmith | 14:06 | |
| [n=njsmith asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith] has joined | ||
| #fedora-meeting | ||
| quaid | I regularly get saved in to a meeting because some kind | 14:06 |
| soul hit my nick to remind me it was time :) | ||
| * ke4qqq is here | 14:06 | |
| * jsmith stumbles in, but is on two phone calls at the moment, | 14:06 | |
| and won't be much use in the meeting | ||
| Sparks | jsmith: That's a neat trick | 14:06 |
| -!- sdziallas_ [n=sebastia p57A2D2F2 dip t-dialin net] has joined | 14:07 | |
| #fedora-meeting | ||
| fozzmoo | heh heh. The Asterisk guy is on 2 phone calls. har har. | 14:07 |
| quaid | heh | 14:07 |
| quaid | he needs an Asterisk Turing plugin | 14:07 |
| jsmith | fozzmoo: It would be funnier if it weren't true :-( | 14:07 |
| quaid | refering to | 14:07 |
| Docs_Project_tasks_during_FUDConF11 | ||
| quaid | from a hackfest point of view, results were mixed | 14:08 |
| * dbewley partially here | 14:08 | |
| quaid | * we didn't get the beats renamed | 14:08 |
| quaid | * I should have known Paul wouldn't be available since he | 14:08 |
| was /running the conference/ and I didn't do too much on process by myself | ||
| quaid | * we still need pages renamed, but could have tho' didn't | 14:08 |
| categorize the pages | ||
| quaid | * jsmith was looking a bit on moving the needle on the IG | 14:09 |
| conversion/how to convert to Publican stuff | ||
| quaid | * we taught about the wiki | 14:09 |
| quaid | * docbook was taught, yay | 14:09 |
| -!- warren [n=warren redhat/wombat/warren] has quit ["Leaving"] | 14:09 | |
| quaid | * probably a dozen people were positively influenced | 14:09 |
| about the wiki, but we wanted the whole room to bow to our methods | ||
| quaid | that's all I had | 14:10 |
| ke4qqq | do we have owners for the various groups of pages? | 14:10 |
| jsmith | quaid: FWIW, stickster and I took a stab at the Publican | 14:10 |
| stuff, but ran into problems with stickster's XSL transform | ||
| stickster | jsmith: I think I knocked most of those out | 14:11 |
| stickster | The newest tarball should hopefully work better | 14:11 |
| laubersm | I got nudged into taking lead on Packaging docs | 14:11 |
| jsmith | stickster: Cool... I'll give it a shot when I get a free | 14:11 |
| minute | ||
| < stickster> | 14:11 | |
| How_to_convert_to_from_fedora-docs-util_to_Publican | ||
| quaid | ke4qqq: we have owners or people working on all BUT the | 14:12 |
| release notes | ||
| quaid | laubersm++ | 14:12 |
| ke4qqq | wow laubersm!!!! | 14:12 |
| -!- jsmith is now known as jsmith-busy | 14:13 | |
| quaid | yeah, I think the Packaging Guide is a great fit -- | 14:13 |
| laubersm has the skills to learn it on the job :), and it's probably the | ||
| most impactful | ||
| thing we can be working on, in terms of making Fedorans' | ||
| lives better. | ||
| jsmith-busy | Amen! | 14:13 |
| laubersm | I don't think the renaming and adding catagories will | 14:13 |
| be hard... then we;ll go from there | ||
| * quaid expects others will pitch in esp. as they see momentum | 14:13 | |
| quaid | laubersm: go ahead and talk too much about it on | 14:14 |
| fedora-docs-list; ask lots of questions on fedora-wiki lists fp org; etc. | ||
| laubersm | will do | 14:14 |
| ke4qqq | yeah I finished all of the Ambassador renaming during | 14:15 |
| fudcon - I'd guess maybe an hour per 100 pages if you know the content. | ||
| Sparks | +1 | 14:15 |
| quaid | ke4qqq: sweet, yeah, I saw the PSV file | 14:16 |
| quaid | g / G_work is probably still asleep ... | 14:16 |
| quaid | we maybe need to enable ianweller to use wikibot more or | 14:17 |
| something. | ||
| quaid | I'd like to see us push those naming changes through asap. | 14:17 |
| -!- fab [n=bellet bellet info] has joined #fedora-meeting | 14:17 | |
| Sparks | quaid: How long does it take wikibot to do all the work? | 14:18 |
| quaid | dunno, it should be pretty fast | 14:18 |
| quaid | it's making changes in the database perhaps? | 14:18 |
| quaid | yeah, I think so; it's not scraping and inputing via the | 14:18 |
| usual web interface. | ||
| Sparks | heck, give him the keys and let him go nuts | 14:18 |
| quaid | +1 | 14:19 |
| quaid | so, we'll update the main task list from the fudcon | 14:19 |
| did/didn't list when we get there | ||
| Sparks | Can we create a new position? Like Wiki Czar? | 14:19 |
| ke4qqq | Sparks: isn't that ian? | 14:19 |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg : | 14:19 | |
| Docs_Project_tasks_during_FUDConF11 :: | ||
| CMS planz | ||
| Sparks | ke4qqq: My point exactly. :) | 14:19 |
| quaid | Sparks: basically, yes, I think we did that a while ago | 14:19 |
| Sparks | quaid: Cool | 14:20 |
| quaid | a few months, not sure if it was Czar, but I like that | 14:20 |
| quaid | hope it wouldn't get any any czarists angry :) | 14:20 |
| quaid | so, did everyone read my email on CMS to f-docs-l? | 14:20 |
| -!- MrTom [n=mrtom fedora/MrTom] has joined #fedora-meeting | 14:20 | |
| Sparks | I did. | 14:21 |
| laubersm | I did | 14:21 |
| * jsmith-busy read it, threw his hands in the air, and did | 14:21 | |
| nothing else | ||
| ke4qqq | yes, and I am curious as to what response you have had. | 14:21 |
| quaid | laubersm: cheat, you proofread it for me before I sent it! | 14:21 |
| * laubersm laughs | 14:21 | |
| quaid | ke4qqq: I haven't looked outside of the list yet, but | 14:21 |
| p'raps it's time to send to the other lists | ||
| -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia p57A2E232 dip t-dialin net] has quit | 14:21 | |
| [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | ||
| * ke4qqq thought you already sent it to -devel | 14:22 | |
| quaid | nothing from the wider community; Max and Greg thought it | 14:22 |
| was a good plan. | ||
| -!- sdziallas_ is now known as sdziallas | 14:22 | |
| quaid | ke4qqq: oops, not yet | 14:22 |
| quaid | why stall? not sure ... | 14:22 |
| Sparks | quaid: Is there a wiki page for the CMS discussion? | 14:22 |
| quaid | Sparks: yeah ... | 14:22 |
| < quaid> | 14:22 | |
| CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites | ||
| * ke4qqq thinks we should send it to -devel and -art and maybe | 14:22 | |
| even just the fedora list | ||
| laubersm | quaid: send it out | 14:23 |
| quaid | ke4qqq: +1 ... hadn't thought about art though | 14:23 |
| quaid | definitely -list and -devel-list | 14:23 |
| -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia p57A2D2F2 dip t-dialin net] has quit | 14:25 | |
| ["Ex-Chat"] | ||
| Sparks | quaid: We should build profiles on each option that has | 14:25 |
| been proposed and show pros and cons. | ||
| -!- John5342 [n=john5342 fedora/John5342] has quit [Remote closed | 14:25 | |
| the connection] | ||
| quaid | Sparks: ah, see ... | 14:26 |
| Sparks | quaid: Maybe we can narrow the list down based on | 14:26 |
| specific things we have to have or can't live with. | ||
| Sparks | quaid: Plus the ability of someone to maintain it upstream. | 14:26 |
| -!- iarlyy [n=iarly mail libertynet com br] has left | 14:26 | |
| #fedora-meeting [] | ||
| ke4qqq | the problem we identified at FUDcon is that virtually | 14:26 |
| all of the options meet most if not all of the needs. | ||
| Sparks | ke4qqq: That's the kind of problem I like! | 14:26 |
| quaid | right, and the process of going beyond marketing materials | 14:26 |
| quaid | is a huge vetting operation. | 14:26 |
| quaid | Sparks: except then nothing stands out as a clear winner | 14:27 |
| Sparks | quaid: True | 14:27 |
| ke4qqq | and really, we are looking for owners. | 14:27 |
| quaid | we also have the problem that anything we bring to | 14:27 |
| Infrastructure is going to be new to them; they are already well taxed | ||
| with other | ||
| complexity, etc. | ||
| -!- red_alert [n=ill fedora/redalert] has joined #fedora-meeting | 14:27 | |
| quaid | ke4qqq: +1 | 14:27 |
| Sparks | So we would need a buy in from them as well. | 14:28 |
| Sparks | We don't want something that is going to add so much | 14:28 |
| work, etc. | ||
| quaid | Sparks: that was the brainwave at FUDCon -- we aren't | 14:28 |
| looking for a CMS as much as owners for a CMS, who are preferably | ||
| passionate about it | ||
| otherwise. | ||
| quaid | e.g. note Basil's response on list | 14:28 |
| ke4qqq | Sparks: Mike & Co. seem pretty open to just about | 14:28 |
| anything within reason. | ||
| jsmith-busy | quaid: I talked to mmcgrath about that, and he | 14:28 |
| didn't seem *that* concerned about bringing in a new CMS | ||
| Sparks | Have we drawn a line in the sand to say "no more" than | 14:29 |
| the seven on the list now? | ||
| quaid | jsmith-busy: I know, but then I talked with Toshio ... | 14:29 |
| ke4qqq | jsmith-busy: but on Sunday he did point out that the | 14:29 |
| wiki migration was really successful because it had an owner (Ian) | ||
| quaid | right, and the wiki is the reference model | 14:30 |
| quaid | when we announced that we were going to move to a | 14:30 |
| specific wiki solution, the person passionate about it showed up. | ||
| jsmith-busy | Sparks: No, it may be premature to draw that line | 14:30 |
| (as much as I hate to admit it) | ||
| -!- danielsmw | 14:30 | |
| [n=danielsm 130-127-20-68 mauldin resnet clemson edu] has joined | ||
| #fedora-meeting | ||
| Sparks | jsmith-busy: Well, that's a problem in itself. | 14:30 |
| quaid | and if we just said "Drupal" that would probably happen, | 14:30 |
| but then we had the thought ... why not just approach this through the | ||
| passion/interest as a primary scope item. | ||
| Sparks | jsmith-busy: As you already know | 14:30 |
| * danielsmw waves hello | 14:30 | |
| quaid | hey danielsmw | 14:31 |
| * jsmith-busy has to run | 14:31 | |
| -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr p4FDD172B dip0 t-ipconnect de] has joined | 14:31 | |
| #fedora-meeting | ||
| -!- jsmith-busy is now known as jsmith-away | 14:31 | |
| quaid | we are catching up on CMS; ref. email sent to f-docs-l | 14:31 |
| danielsmw | k | 14:31 |
| < quaid> | 14:32 | |
| http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-January/msg00077.html | ||
| for the IRC records :) | ||
| -!- harveybetty [n=harvey firewall eccnet com] has joined | 14:33 | |
| #fedora-meeting | ||
| quaid | Sparks: one thing I appreciated about Basil's email was | 14:33 |
| that he narrowed it to "PHP-based" but was willing to consider outside | ||
| of his | ||
| expertise; that leaves room for e.g. Joomla experts to | ||
| show up and he can join that team. | ||
| quaid | hey harveybetty | 14:33 |
| ke4qqq | right, but the MW decision was pushed based on the | 14:33 |
| technical need. | ||
| quaid | we are catching up on CMS; ref. email sent to f-docs-l | 14:33 |
| harveybetty | Hi there - I was in the wrong channel | 14:33 |
| quaid | ke4qqq: right, and we have no clear cms winner as we did | 14:33 |
| for wiki | ||
| quaid | plus that was some months of work on mmcgrath's part; he | 14:33 |
| vetted the solutions, ran scripts, etc. | ||
| quaid | the part of this that we could do but haven't nor really | 14:33 |
| want to :) | ||
| quaid | harveybetty: yeah, we got our meeting time secured; the | 14:34 |
| other group moved to a different day | ||
| harveybetty | Is there a list of CMS's that are being considered? | 14:34 |
| danielsmw | harveybetty: this was the original page on the topic | 14:35 |
| that lists some on the bottom: | ||
| CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites#Background | ||
| danielsmw | although i don't know what's been discussed here | 14:35 |
| quaid | we are talkinga bout | 14:35 |
| quaid | the idea of having a team self-identify as being willing | 14:36 |
| quaid | to deploy and maintain | 14:36 |
| quaid | and they choose their own solution | 14:36 |
| danielsmw | ooh. | 14:36 |
| quaid | i.e., email to fedora-list gets some Drupal people interested | 14:36 |
| quaid | so it's Drupal, they run it, and we work with them. | 14:36 |
| quaid | otherwise we are in a deep rabbit hole looking at 100+ | 14:37 |
| solutions that nearly all fit our needs, without any technical | ||
| contributors to fix the | ||
| gaps, and still nothing deployed with no one to deploy it :) | ||
| harveybetty | Drupal is a nice solution. There is an XML module | 14:38 |
| that fits nicely. I have run into a problem when trying to install | ||
| faceted search | ||
| because the search doesn't understand XML and | ||
| causes errors. I am investigating integrating SOLR as the search engine. | ||
| quaid | ok, so I'm sending email to f-devel-l and fedora-list and | 14:38 |
| fedora-art-list | ||
| quaid | harveybetty: honestly, considering how many Drupalheads I | 14:39 |
| know of, I'd bet that one has a clear run for the lead; if you are | ||
| interested in | ||
| being part of a team that deploys/maintains, that is even | ||
| better :) | ||
| quaid | we haven't heard of any DocBook module other than that one | 14:39 |
| * quaid ready to move on to the next agenda item | 14:39 | |
| quaid | anything more here? | 14:39 |
| ke4qqq | nothing - but I'd like to ask a bunch of questions of | 14:40 |
| harveybetty at some point regarding drupal | ||
| Sparks | ke4qqq: Maybe we should have a separate session after | 14:40 |
| the meeting | ||
| harveybetty | Be glad too. It is a generic XML module and you | 14:40 |
| can plug Docbook in. | ||
| * danielsmw agrees | 14:40 | |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: I have questions as well | 14:40 |
| quaid | ok, maybe on #fedora-docs, start anytime IMO | 14:41 |
| harveybetty | I can be available later on #fedora-docs. | 14:41 |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: | 14:41 | |
| Release notes lead ... | ||
| quaid | this remains our only un-led guide | 14:41 |
| quaid | other than wider recruiting ... | 14:42 |
| quaid | any other thoughts on that one? | 14:42 |
| * quaid notes that it is in fact usually much easier on the | 14:42 | |
| writing and much harder on the wrangling of cats than other content | ||
| Sparks | This is probably one of our biggest project that gets | 14:42 |
| the most attention. | ||
| quaid | yeah, I think it's unlikely we'll just drop it | 14:43 |
| quaid | despite whatever stickster and I have said :) | 14:43 |
| quaid | so it might be worth a wider recruiting effort? | 14:44 |
| -!- moixs [n=chatzill 77-56-144-22 dclient hispeed ch] has joined | 14:44 | |
| #fedora-meeting | ||
| stickster | quaid: How many wider recruiting efforts have we had | 14:44 |
| at this point, do you think? | ||
| -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk | 14:44 | |
| * ke4qqq wonders if laubersm can be nudged more? | 14:44 | |
| * Sparks warms up the pokers | 14:44 | |
| * laubersm runs fast | 14:44 | |
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| 110 (Connection timed out)] | ||
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| Sparks | laubersm: I'm sure you'll have support if you do take | 14:46 |
| the project. | ||
| -!- valente [n=valente 213 233 88 171] has quit ["Leaving."] | 14:46 | |
| quaid | stickster: not that much outside of my occasional pleas | 14:46 |
| via blogging | ||
| Sparks | laubersm: Just need someone to "manage" its development. | 14:46 |
| laubersm | sparks: I already have a project | 14:46 |
| Sparks | :) | 14:46 |
| ke4qqq | there's been the mailing list posts as well | 14:46 |
| quaid | yeah, that's my concern, we don't want to overload those | 14:46 |
| who are already taking on assignments | ||
| quaid | stickster: but with one thing to recruit for, maybe that | 14:47 |
| will help? | ||
| ke4qqq | so here is my concern..... | 14:47 |
| * quaid listens | 14:47 | |
| ke4qqq | you are essentially talking about taking a person from 0 | 14:47 |
| - - to responsible for what is arguably the most important document we | ||
| produce at | ||
| least in terms of # of readers. | ||
| quaid | ke4qqq: honestly, I'm going to be there all the way alongside | 14:49 |
| quaid | but that is a good point | 14:49 |
| Sparks | quaid: How long does it take to put all the changes in? | 14:49 |
| -!- ezq [n=ezq 201-213-152-14 net prima net ar] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] | 14:49 | |
| quaid | Sparks: ideally one watches the wiki along the way and | 14:49 |
| makes it easier | ||
| ke4qqq | that sounds scary......even though there is handholding | 14:49 |
| available. | ||
| quaid | true | 14:49 |
| quaid | maybe I could ask for "interns" to work directly with me | 14:50 |
| for the release | ||
| quaid | with the idea that one of them will step-up to lead for | 14:50 |
| the F12 release. | ||
| ke4qqq | why not target the beat writers for F10? | 14:50 |
| ke4qqq | esp the non-new feature writers | 14:51 |
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| quaid | ke4qqq: as in, direct asking if they want to lead? | 14:51 |
| ke4qqq | yes | 14:51 |
| quaid | that's not a bad idea in fact :) | 14:52 |
| * quaid makes himself a list | 14:52 | |
| quaid | so ... | 14:52 |
| ke4qqq | that's a 'promotion'....lol | 14:52 |
| quaid | 1. Ask existing beat writers from F10 | 14:52 |
| -!- iarlyy [n=iarlyy mail libertynet com br] has joined | 14:52 | |
| #fedora-meeting | ||
| quaid | 2. If no bites, maybe recruit ass't editors who get | 14:52 |
| promoted in the future. | ||
| quaid | 3. If no go there, decide if we are going to do the guide | 14:52 |
| anyway or not | ||
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| route to host)] | ||
| * ke4qqq thinks FESCo will fire us if we don't.....besides that | 14:53 | |
| gets more rave reviews.... - perhaps we drop another document and | ||
| refocus on that. | ||
| * ke4qqq shrugs | 14:53 | |
| -!- rod085 [n=rod085 189 35 191 16] has joined #fedora-meeting | 14:53 | |
| Sparks | I see the Docs Project working on two kinds of projects: | 14:53 |
| Sparks | 1) The projects we are passionate about | 14:54 |
| Sparks | 2) The projects that need to get done for Fedora | 14:54 |
| quaid | well, one can self-volunteer for 2) but you can't really | 14:54 |
| go asking for that too much. | ||
| Sparks | While we all like doing the first type of projects we | 14:54 |
| all need to do the second type. | ||
| * ke4qqq doesn't see many projects that aren't #2, even if the | 14:55 | |
| reason for working on them are #1. | ||
| Sparks | ke4qqq: true | 14:56 |
| * ke4qqq can't get subjects and verbs to agree | 14:56 | |
| quaid | right, and the idea is to get #2 done via the #1 method | 14:56 |
| quaid | then it's done better, with more fun, etc. | 14:56 |
| ke4qqq | +1 | 14:56 |
| Sparks | +1 | 14:57 |
| laubersm | and if there is someone out there passionate about | 14:57 |
| having release notes..... | ||
| quaid | :D | 14:57 |
| quaid | well, if we drop the work, they'll sure notice :) | 14:57 |
| ke4qqq | there are lots of people passionate about having | 14:57 |
| them....just not about writing them. | ||
| quaid | is anyone available/interested in helping with the | 14:57 |
| recruting for RN lead? | ||
| * ke4qqq will work on recruiting a new RN lead | 14:58 | |
| quaid | ke4qqq: you're on! | 14:58 |
| quaid | thx | 14:58 |
| * quaid will update our tasks table with this stuff, too | 14:58 | |
| quaid | since we are near closing | 14:59 |
| quaid | how about if we call this here and retire to #fedora-docs? | 14:59 |
| ke4qqq | +1 | 14:59 |
| danielsmw | +1 | 14:59 |
| quaid | sweet | 14:59 |
| * quaid closes in 5 | 14:59 | |
| quaid | 4 | 14:59 |
| quaid | 3 | 14:59 |
| quaid | 2 | 14:59 |
| quaid | 1 | 14:59 |
| quaid | </meeting> | 14:59 |