From Fedora Project Wiki
| Sparks | <meeting id="Docs Project"> | Apr 01 20:00 |
|---|---|---|
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the | Apr 01 20:00 | |
| Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: | ||
| DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings | ||
| Sparks | Roll call! | Apr 01 20:00 |
| quaid | let the boy change the topic at least :) | Apr 01 20:00 |
| *radsy is here | Apr 01 20:00 | |
| *quaid esta aqui | Apr 01 20:00 | |
| *jjmcd here | Apr 01 20:00 | |
| *Sparks is here | Apr 01 20:00 | |
| *glezos είναι εδώ | Apr 01 20:00 | |
| glezos | if that seemed all greek to you.. I'm | Apr 01 20:01 |
| here. | ||
| quaid | wordplay! | Apr 01 20:01 |
| jjmcd | glezos: sometime in a bar remind me to tell you | Apr 01 20:01 |
| my story about greek | ||
| *Sparks er her | Apr 01 20:01 | |
| jjmcd | -- | Apr 01 20:02 |
| Sparks | glezos: Everything looks greek to me at | Apr 01 20:02 |
| this hour | ||
| *Renault has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox | Apr 01 20:02 | |
| 3.1b3/20090327190841]") | ||
| *joat says "me too!" | Apr 01 20:02 | |
| *ryanlerch | Apr 01 20:02 | |
| (n=rlerch@nat/redhat/x-0dd0cf536998819b) has joined #fedora-meeting | ||
| Sparks | Okay... I see one of my stars on board | Apr 01 20:02 |
| so let's go harass him. | ||
| Sparks | Oh, I spoke too soon! Both of them! | Apr 01 20:03 |
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - | Apr 01 20:03 | |
| Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd | ||
| jcm jcollie jds2001 Jeff_S jeremy jjmcd jlaska jnettlet | Apr 01 20:03 | |
| joat juhp jwb | ||
| Sparks | jjmcd: Okay, let me have it! | Apr 01 20:03 |
| jjmcd | OK, I basically got 4 kinds of beats | Apr 01 20:03 |
| *rudi (n=rlandman@nat/redhat/x-6dae8d4e0825a1f2) | Apr 01 20:03 | |
| has joined #fedora-meeting | ||
| jjmcd | ok' | Apr 01 20:03 |
| *RodrigoPadula has quit ("Saindo") | Apr 01 20:04 | |
| jjmcd | Oh | Apr 01 20:04 |
| jjmcd | When you said.... never mind | Apr 01 20:04 |
| jjmcd | 1) No content in wiki, not sure whether any | Apr 01 20:04 |
| changes, might drop: | ||
| jjmcd | Arch specific, printing, daemons, server config | Apr 01 20:04 |
| tools | ||
| Sparks | jjmcd: You here tonight? I might not be | Apr 01 20:04 |
| jjmcd | 2) Limited content in wiki, might go with | Apr 01 20:05 |
| limited content: | ||
| jjmcd | Entertainment, Live, Security | Apr 01 20:05 |
| jjmcd | 3) NEED CONTENT: | Apr 01 20:05 |
| jjmcd | Networking, boot, web, mail, database, file | Apr 01 20:05 |
| servers | ||
| jjmcd | 4) Significant chunks of wiki to convert: | Apr 01 20:05 |
| jjmcd | Virtualization, Xorg, Cluster, Kernel | Apr 01 20:05 |
| jjmcd | (Virtualization is an update hence tedious, Xorg | Apr 01 20:05 |
| could use more content) | ||
| jjmcd | Just talked to Ryan, he can deal with xorg | Apr 01 20:05 |
| jjmcd | The more help we can get the less we will have | Apr 01 20:05 |
| to drop, but basically | ||
| jjmcd | we need to be done midday tommorow eastern so we | Apr 01 20:05 |
| can make the pot | ||
| Sparks | jjmcd: Have you worked the kinks out of | Apr 01 20:06 |
| the pot? | ||
| jjmcd | We know how to make the pot | Apr 01 20:06 |
| Sparks | cool | Apr 01 20:06 |
| jjmcd | We think we can then use the result | Apr 01 20:06 |
| jjmcd | That second part hasn't been proven, but | Apr 01 20:06 |
| jjmcd | stickster and glezos seem to thinnk it isn't a | Apr 01 20:06 |
| problem | ||
| Sparks | And you are going with that? | Apr 01 20:06 |
| Sparks | :) | Apr 01 20:07 |
| jjmcd | yes | Apr 01 20:07 |
| Sparks | So what do you need from me/Docs? | Apr 01 20:07 |
| quaid | right, it's no worse than what we've done in the | Apr 01 20:07 |
| past | ||
| rudi | There are a few strings in the po files for the | Apr 01 20:07 |
| F10 notes that can be reused: the Welcome section and maybe some section | ||
| titles | ||
| jjmcd | We could use some hands to research servers, | Apr 01 20:07 |
| networking | ||
| jjmcd | and do some of the remaining conversions | Apr 01 20:07 |
| jjmcd | without the py tools it is basically cut and | Apr 01 20:07 |
| paste | ||
| quaid | jjmcd: you mean the xml conversion tools? | Apr 01 20:08 |
| jjmcd | yeah | Apr 01 20:08 |
| Sparks | Okay, I think there have been some | Apr 01 20:08 |
| advances to the NetworkManager... not sure about the rest | ||
| jjmcd | the ones that need some library or another and | Apr 01 20:08 |
| don't work anymore | ||
| *stickster_afk is now known as stickster | Apr 01 20:08 | |
| jjmcd | I'm not so sure cut/paste isn't easier anyway | Apr 01 20:08 |
| quaid | jjmcd: aren't there packages we can use now, | Apr 01 20:08 |
| although not yet in the repo? | ||
| jjmcd | Seems like there was something broken | Apr 01 20:08 |
| *quaid is sorry, shall we hold tool discussions | Apr 01 20:08 | |
| for a bit? | ||
| Sparks | quaid: Yeah, that's coming up | Apr 01 20:09 |
| jjmcd | Yeah, there's only a few larger pieces anyway | Apr 01 20:09 |
| Sparks | quaid: Of course we can merge the | Apr 01 20:09 |
| topics... | ||
| jjmcd | cut/paste probably would take a total of a | Apr 01 20:09 |
| couple of hours | ||
| *quaid should wait :) | Apr 01 20:09 | |
| jjmcd | but if someone does that I can research the | Apr 01 20:09 |
| missing pieces | ||
| Sparks | Okay... who can step up for some last | Apr 01 20:09 |
| minute research and converting? | ||
| Sparks | The first ten people get a piece of | Apr 01 20:10 |
| cherry pie (I baked yesterday). | ||
| stickster | quaid: Are you guys talking about the | Apr 01 20:10 |
| problems with mw-render? | ||
| Sparks | jjmcd: I can try to get some additional | Apr 01 20:10 |
| information on NetworkManager. | ||
| stickster | quaid: Are you guys talking about the | Apr 01 20:10 |
| problems with mw-render? | ||
| stickster | jjmcd: ^^ | Apr 01 20:10 |
| jjmcd | That would be a help | Apr 01 20:11 |
| quaid | stickster: yes | Apr 01 20:11 |
| jjmcd | yes | Apr 01 20:11 |
| stickster | I think you can download the odfpy07 | Apr 01 20:11 |
| review SRPM package that's in Bugzilla and rebuild it locally | ||
| jjmcd | but over the past few weeks we've gotten most | Apr 01 20:11 |
| dome by hand | ||
| quaid | that's what I'm talking 'bout! | Apr 01 20:11 |
| jjmcd | so rather than spend time trying to make the | Apr 01 20:11 |
| tool work | ||
| joat | when's it needed by? | Apr 01 20:11 |
| jjmcd | Tomorrow | Apr 01 20:11 |
| Sparks | at noon | Apr 01 20:11 |
| jjmcd | and most of the conversion is done | Apr 01 20:11 |
| stickster | jjmcd: Yeah, you don't want to spin | Apr 01 20:11 |
| useful cycles making a tool work when you could just do some elbow | ||
| grease | ||
| jjmcd | thanks to Ryan | Apr 01 20:11 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: is that noon EDT? | Apr 01 20:12 |
| joat | ouch... | Apr 01 20:12 |
| jjmcd | I figure noon EDT or so will give us plenty of | Apr 01 20:12 |
| time for pits, git branches etc | ||
| jjmcd | pots I mean | Apr 01 20:12 |
| Sparks | pots or pits | Apr 01 20:12 |
| jjmcd | We still need a strategy for l10n | Apr 01 20:12 |
| quaid | I clarified on the timing to f-devel-l et al, | Apr 01 20:12 |
| fwiw | ||
| jjmcd | to see a clean one pot system while not loosing | Apr 01 20:13 |
| our 30~ pots | ||
| jjmcd | but I don't see that as a big problem | Apr 01 20:13 |
| stickster | jjmcd: The "strategy" is, I think, to | Apr 01 20:14 |
| create a new git branch, put the one POT in that branch and remove the | ||
| other POTs, have Transifex use that branch, and let the L10n'ers know. | ||
| jjmcd | Yep I think that's it | Apr 01 20:14 |
| quaid | that's more like a tactic, in my book :) | Apr 01 20:14 |
| stickster | The 'master' branch will retain | Apr 01 20:14 |
| everything in a normal Publican fashion | ||
| jjmcd | that was my thought, assuming tx can use an | Apr 01 20:14 |
| arbitrary branch | ||
| stickster | quaid: Yeah, you caught me, but I think | Apr 01 20:14 |
| that's what was asked for | ||
| quaid | we need to interact with an admin of | Apr 01 20:14 |
| translate.fedoraproject.org | ||
| quaid | although theoretically we could grow knowledge | Apr 01 20:15 |
| of how to add modules within our group, if we want | ||
| stickster | I'm sure either Rasther or glezos would | Apr 01 20:15 |
| be able to help there. | ||
| rudi | So are we planning to have L10N create one big | Apr 01 20:15 |
| po per language? | ||
| jjmcd | yep | Apr 01 20:15 |
| jjmcd | Then we will merge those strings into the | Apr 01 20:15 |
| individual pos | ||
| quaid | and then slice it up to reinsert in to Publican? | Apr 01 20:15 |
| jjmcd | exactly | Apr 01 20:16 |
| quaid | ah, ok, that's a nicer way to say it, merge. | Apr 01 20:16 |
| jjmcd | Apparently there is some tool | Apr 01 20:16 |
| Sparks | slice and dice | Apr 01 20:16 |
| rudi | That will be an non-trivial task for the Install | Apr 01 20:16 |
| guide with ~700 po files | ||
| quaid | only if it requires manual intervention? | Apr 01 20:16 |
| jjmcd | bash is my friend | Apr 01 20:16 |
| *laubersm | Apr 01 20:17 | |
| (n=laubersm@72-255-35-203.client.stsn.net) has joined #fedora-meeting | ||
| stickster | jjmcd: yes, msgmerge | Apr 01 20:17 |
| jjmcd | I'm happy to see so many people raise their | Apr 01 20:17 |
| hands to help | ||
| *quaid loves to play in bash | Apr 01 20:17 | |
| *jjmcd often reverts to C - the angels' language | Apr 01 20:18 | |
| stickster | jjmcd: I can do the Virt beat | Apr 01 20:18 |
| quaid | where is the list? | Apr 01 20:18 |
| stickster | quaid: See above ^^^^ | Apr 01 20:18 |
| jjmcd | We got good content, but the conversion will be | Apr 01 20:18 |
| a bit of a pain | ||
| *laubersm pops in to try to catch up | Apr 01 20:18 | |
| stickster | 'round 00:04 | Apr 01 20:18 |
| jjmcd | http://fpaste.org/paste/7653 | Apr 01 20:19 |
| jjmcd | laubersm: Need to get done tomorrow midday ehat | Apr 01 20:20 |
| we're talking about | ||
| Sparks | jjmcd: Is there anything we can | Apr 01 20:20 |
| steal/borrow from KDE and GNOME for arch specific? | ||
| stickster | Sparks: Wouldn't make sense, they're | Apr 01 20:20 |
| higher up the stack. | ||
| stickster | Typically those involve things like | Apr 01 20:20 |
| minimum hardware requirements and install gotchas | ||
| Sparks | stickster: Ahhh.. Okay | Apr 01 20:20 |
| jjmcd | I didn't see anything arch specific there - I'm | Apr 01 20:20 |
| not so sure there really is anything | ||
| jjmcd | OK, so maybe we need to review the F10 notes | Apr 01 20:21 |
| Sparks | Okay... let's come back to this at the | Apr 01 20:22 |
| end to get the volunteers. | ||
| Sparks | any other questions about the Release | Apr 01 20:22 |
| notes? | ||
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - | Apr 01 20:22 | |
| Beat writers flagging content for alpha/beta one-sheet | ||
| quaid | ok, this was mine | Apr 01 20:23 |
| Sparks | Okay... not sure what this is but I'm | Apr 01 20:23 |
| pretty sure I didn't put it up | ||
| Sparks | Oh good... | Apr 01 20:23 |
| Sparks | Go quaid | Apr 01 20:23 |
| quaid | a question came up on f-i18n-l because they have | Apr 01 20:23 |
| some cool new tech (ibus) that didn't get in either the announcement and | ||
| or the one page Beta notes | ||
| quaid | I'm sure it's on their beat | Apr 01 20:24 |
| *inode0 has quit ("Leaving.") | Apr 01 20:24 | |
| quaid | and that is where it *should* be, right? | Apr 01 20:24 |
| quaid | they right one source, etc. | Apr 01 20:24 |
| quaid | but how do the rest of us know what needs early | Apr 01 20:24 |
| Alpha or Beta mention, talking points, etc. | ||
| quaid | other than combing features, etc. | Apr 01 20:24 |
| quaid | so I wondered what to do? | Apr 01 20:24 |
| quaid | at the least, give beat writers a way to flag | Apr 01 20:24 |
| their content as worth a mention in either the Alpha or Beta or Preview | ||
| ... | ||
| *jjmcd would rather leave that to the marketing | Apr 01 20:25 | |
| guys | ||
| *k0k (n=k0k@fedora/k0k) has joined | Apr 01 20:25 | |
| #fedora-meeting | ||
| *Sparks has an idea | Apr 01 20:25 | |
| quaid | jjmcd: well, the announcement and talking points | Apr 01 20:26 |
| ... but what about release notes worthy content? and can this all be | ||
| covered with one set of instructions for beat writers? | ||
| *izaac has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection | Apr 01 20:26 | |
| reset by peer)) | ||
| *quaid has no plan fwiw | Apr 01 20:26 | |
| Sparks | Okay... Just an idea... | Apr 01 20:26 |
| quaid | just that we have a system we can build on, etc. | Apr 01 20:26 |
| *quaid listens | Apr 01 20:26 | |
| Sparks | If each beat is its own page... | Apr 01 20:27 |
| Sparks | they can be marked with a category... | Apr 01 20:27 |
| Sparks | and then we can use those categories to | Apr 01 20:27 |
| create the docs... | ||
| Sparks | so when they are ready for their item to | Apr 01 20:27 |
| be included they just add the appropriate cat. | ||
| Sparks | <eof> | Apr 01 20:27 |
| quaid | aren't they in a category or two already? | Apr 01 20:28 |
| Sparks | Maybe... | Apr 01 20:28 |
| quaid | ok, we could have a [[Category:Release notes | Apr 01 20:28 |
| beat Beta content]] for example | ||
| Sparks | yes | Apr 01 20:28 |
| *quaid sees that some are not in a category, | Apr 01 20:28 | |
| *ick* :D | ||
| Sparks | So we would see when something got added | Apr 01 20:28 |
| to that cat. | ||
| quaid | right, that sources it | Apr 01 20:28 |
| jjmcd | The category makes a page, tho. DevTools has | Apr 01 20:29 |
| over 100 changes | ||
| Sparks | This is being done for something but I | Apr 01 20:29 |
| don't remember what it is | ||
| quaid | if they want to consider something as a talking | Apr 01 20:29 |
| point for release announcements and PR, they could add that cat, too, i | ||
| suppose. | ||
| Sparks | And they shouldn't add the cat until | Apr 01 20:29 |
| they are DONE... finished... no more editing. | ||
| quaid | jjmcd: so we'd need some way within the page to | Apr 01 20:29 |
| mark specific content ... | ||
| jjmcd | Yeah | Apr 01 20:29 |
| quaid | Sparks: well, not for Beta, for example | Apr 01 20:29 |
| Sparks | Well............ | Apr 01 20:30 |
| Sparks | yeah | Apr 01 20:30 |
| quaid | and we need to churn discussion before beats are | Apr 01 20:30 |
| done; Paul and marketing | ||
| quaid | have been talking up stuff that are mainly | Apr 01 20:30 |
| quaid | in feature pages. | Apr 01 20:30 |
| jjmcd | That discussion mostly on dev-list? | Apr 01 20:31 |
| quaid | no, I mean Marketing | Apr 01 20:31 |
| quaid | to the press, blogs, talking points, etc. | Apr 01 20:31 |
| *stickster points out that Marketing concentrates | Apr 01 20:31 | |
| on just a few features that have a really compelling story that can be | ||
| built around them | ||
| jjmcd | mmmm .... good point, there are a lot of cool | Apr 01 20:31 |
| stuff that ain't on the feature pages | ||
| quaid | stickster: I'm thinking we might as well have a | Apr 01 20:32 |
| way for beat writers to hook in to that machine with suggestions without | ||
| having to create a feature page; a feature doesn't always apply, does | ||
| it? | ||
| stickster | What do you mean, have beat writers | Apr 01 20:32 |
| suggest stories to Marketing? | ||
| quaid | a beat writer may know about a technical change | Apr 01 20:33 |
| that is worthy of being a talking point, but that isn't a Feature | ||
| *k0k has quit ("Saliendo") | Apr 01 20:33 | |
| quaid | and since Docs | Apr 01 20:33 |
| quaid | does the release announcements | Apr 01 20:33 |
| quaid | and does it on more than just the talking points | Apr 01 20:33 |
| for the Alpha ... PR | ||
| quaid | it helps if we know some of that too, right? | Apr 01 20:34 |
| jjmcd | There are many groups of features that would be | Apr 01 20:34 |
| exciting to some niche audiences. I don't know whether the marketing | ||
| guys have the cycles for that, but it could be fertile ground | ||
| quaid | well, we can collect it without using it. | Apr 01 20:34 |
| stickster | jjmcd: The point of the Marketing | Apr 01 20:34 |
| talking points is to reach the widest possible audience | ||
| jjmcd | Yes, so it is different from the talking points | Apr 01 20:34 |
| stickster | quaid: I guess I'm not seeing where a | Apr 01 20:34 |
| technical change that's not a feature is going to be important enough to | ||
| qualify | ||
| stickster | Maybe an example would help | Apr 01 20:35 |
| quaid | however, we have niche audiences that could get | Apr 01 20:35 |
| niche release focuse; e.g. software developers | ||
| jjmcd | exctly | Apr 01 20:35 |
| jjmcd | Chitlesh has a nice story for electronic | Apr 01 20:35 |
| designers | ||
| jjmcd | there are a lot of goodies for hams | Apr 01 20:35 |
| stickster | quaid: And that's the purpose of the | Apr 01 20:35 |
| reorganized release notes, right? | ||
| quaid | heh, I dunno, if it's not a feature, how do I | Apr 01 20:35 |
| know about it? | ||
| stickster | i.e. "New for Software Developers," "New | Apr 01 20:36 |
| for SysAdmins," etc. | ||
| quaid | stickster: right, and having a beat writer call | Apr 01 20:36 |
| out the top 10 items from 100 devel tool changes would be helpful | ||
| jjmcd | But do you go tell that to Dr. Dobbs Journal? | Apr 01 20:36 |
| stickster | I think it's important for us not to | Apr 01 20:37 |
| overload the talking point process right now, which is young and still | ||
| unsteady on its feet | ||
| quaid | stickster: well, ok, I guess it undermines the | Apr 01 20:37 |
| feature process of "own it enough to make a feature page and you get | ||
| marketing attention" | ||
| stickster | quaid: Good point. | Apr 01 20:37 |
| quaid | but we can collect that info via categories | Apr 01 20:37 |
| quaid | to gather foci for Alpha, Beta, and PR | Apr 01 20:37 |
| quaid | I think the final announcement needs to continue | Apr 01 20:37 |
| the tight-and-not-overloaded following of the talking points we have | ||
| established. | ||
| jjmcd | Yes I agree | Apr 01 20:38 |
| quaid | ok, I'll make a note in my ever morphing task | Apr 01 20:38 |
| list | ||
| quaid | to create a set of categories for the beats to | Apr 01 20:38 |
| use as a workflow/transition state flags | ||
| *jsmith | Apr 01 20:38 | |
| (n=jsmith@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith) has joined | ||
| #fedora-meeting | ||
| jjmcd | But it seems to me it would be cool id Paul | Apr 01 20:38 |
| colud have a story for some niche publications that might not be | ||
| interested in just another Linux release | ||
| *zwu|gone is now known as zwu | Apr 01 20:38 | |
| quaid | and we can publicize those for the Preview | Apr 01 20:38 |
| Release | ||
| quaid | jjmcd: well, maybe the process of convering as | Apr 01 20:39 |
| we go on the relnotes helps him find that stuff earlier | ||
| jjmcd | Perhaps we should have some "cool for this | Apr 01 20:39 |
| audience" wiki pages | ||
| *Sparks notes that it is 40 minutes after the | Apr 01 20:40 | |
| hour and spot needs to go eat... | ||
| Sparks | quaid: So you have a plan? | Apr 01 20:40 |
| *quaid is done with his task taken | Apr 01 20:40 | |
| Sparks | :) | Apr 01 20:41 |
| quaid | I think we got it, yeah | Apr 01 20:41 |
| Sparks | anything else? | Apr 01 20:41 |
| quaid | thx | Apr 01 20:41 |
| quaid | eoitem | Apr 01 20:41 |
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - | Apr 01 20:41 | |
| An update to "Publican fix for Fedora?" | ||
| quaid | thx for hanging spot :D | Apr 01 20:41 |
| spot | so... let me make a few points quickly here | Apr 01 20:41 |
| spot | I have given this a LOT of thought over the last | Apr 01 20:41 |
| day or so | ||
| spot | especially after learning about the limitations | Apr 01 20:41 |
| of our build/errata tools and RPM | ||
| spot | my biggest concern about lang separated SRPMs is | Apr 01 20:42 |
| this: In RHEL, there are 2,104 doc packages | ||
| spot | thats 2104 reviews. | Apr 01 20:42 |
| Sparks | wow | Apr 01 20:42 |
| stickster | That's scary. | Apr 01 20:42 |
| jsmith | A plethora! | Apr 01 20:42 |
| spot | i honestly don't think it scales without a | Apr 01 20:43 |
| concerted effort | ||
| spot | now, if you guys say "we'll tag team and knock | Apr 01 20:43 |
| them all out on our own", then i will back away slowly | ||
| spot | as is, we approved the other two items that were | Apr 01 20:43 |
| on FPC's agenda on tuesday | ||
| spot | * permitting desktop files inline | Apr 01 20:43 |
| spot | * allowing distro versioning in name when Docs | Apr 01 20:44 |
| Project determines it is necessary | ||
| spot | so, once FESCo ratifies those items | Apr 01 20:44 |
| spot | (which they should do on Friday, hopefully) | Apr 01 20:44 |
| quaid | should we have $who there? | Apr 01 20:44 |
| spot | there would be nothing preventing you guys from | Apr 01 20:45 |
| filing package review requests for several thousand doc packages | ||
| spot | the guidelines don't say you can't carpetbomb | Apr 01 20:45 |
| the review requests | ||
| *stickster shudders to see other packager | Apr 01 20:46 | |
| reaction at both that, and then the film-in-reverse anti-carpetbombing | ||
| of review approvals | ||
| spot | i really wish there was a way to make the lang | Apr 01 20:46 |
| packages as subpackages, but in talking to folks like paul and mike | ||
| hideo about this issue, i don't think that it is possible | ||
| *Sparks thinks we'll have to get a B-29 for the | Apr 01 20:46 | |
| bombing | ||
| spot | the only thing i would suggest is this | Apr 01 20:46 |
| spot | Write a simplified template for doing publican | Apr 01 20:47 |
| based doc reviews | ||
| spot | also, write a review checklist | Apr 01 20:47 |
| spot | and publicize the hell out of it | Apr 01 20:47 |
| spot | so that you have an example "good spec" and a | Apr 01 20:47 |
| checklist | ||
| spot | i'd be happy to sanity check both | Apr 01 20:47 |
| spot | then, i wish you luck and i hide in my bunker | Apr 01 20:48 |
| jjmcd | ;) | Apr 01 20:48 |
| quaid | isn't Publican supposed to kick out an SRPM that | Apr 01 20:48 |
| can be directly and minimally reviewed? | ||
| Sparks | We'll definitely be checking in with you | Apr 01 20:48 |
| so we are all in sync. | ||
| Sparks | quaid: Supposed to | Apr 01 20:48 |
| quaid | that is, once the base of what it does is | Apr 01 20:48 |
| approved or fixed or whathaveyou ... | ||
| Sparks | quaid: Once Publican behaves itself then | Apr 01 20:48 |
| it should be too difficult to review. | ||
| spot | quaid: yes, but you have to realize that the | Apr 01 20:48 |
| average person is going to see | ||
| "HolyCrap-Documentation_Everywhere-OMG_WTF-1.0-ja" | ||
| spot | and they aren't going to want to review it. | Apr 01 20:48 |
| quaid | are we considering the multiple language SRPMS | Apr 01 20:49 |
| because: | ||
| quaid | a) Publican only supports that and we have no | Apr 01 20:49 |
| choice | ||
| quaid | b) We think it's the right way to go (f-r-n is | Apr 01 20:49 |
| 20 MB and growing ...) | ||
| spot | quaid: our infrastructure can't handle updating | Apr 01 20:49 |
| just a single lang subpackage | ||
| quaid | c) Publican could be made to support something | Apr 01 20:49 |
| else and we'd prefer that, but can't make that happen | ||
| Sparks | d) all of the above | Apr 01 20:49 |
| spot | so, if that is important to you, your only real | Apr 01 20:50 |
| option is to separate out by lang | ||
| quaid | ah | Apr 01 20:50 |
| spot | i tried literally for several hours to find | Apr 01 20:50 |
| another way | ||
| quaid | so if i want to update the French release notes | Apr 01 20:50 |
| spot | there just isn't one | Apr 01 20:50 |
| stickster | quaid: Yeah, ianweller unfortunately was | Apr 01 20:50 |
| mistaken about that one | ||
| quaid | right now I need to push a whole package | Apr 01 20:50 |
| quaid | and with subpackages, i would have to update | Apr 01 20:50 |
| the base and all the subs? | ||
| quaid | but with true stand-alone perlang packages, i | Apr 01 20:50 |
| can update them individually. | ||
| stickster | quaid: Right. | Apr 01 20:50 |
| quaid | ok | Apr 01 20:51 |
| stickster | At least, spot and f13 both say that's | Apr 01 20:51 |
| how it works. | ||
| stickster | (which to me means bankworthy) | Apr 01 20:51 |
| quaid | so | Apr 01 20:51 |
| quaid | if (b) is the way, we think it's right and | Apr 01 20:51 |
| Publican is pushing us in the right direction ... | ||
| quaid | then doesn't our decision fall from that | Apr 01 20:51 |
| realization? | ||
| spot | well, again, the question is: | Apr 01 20:51 |
| spot | how realistic is your need to push single lang | Apr 01 20:51 |
| subpackages separately? | ||
| rudi | Packaged up I don't know how big it would be, | Apr 01 20:52 |
| but right now the IG with its 36 languages and dozens of screenshots in | ||
| each language is up to 600 MB here | ||
| jjmcd | We have a ways to go before we get to | Apr 01 20:52 |
| "thousands", but not as far as we would like | ||
| spot | if it is a real need, then its a need. | Apr 01 20:52 |
| glezos | stickster, indeed, we'll be happy to | Apr 01 20:52 |
| provide any help requested. | ||
| quaid | rudi: hot diggity! | Apr 01 20:52 |
| stickster | It's a real need in my experience, IFF. | Apr 01 20:53 |
| we want to respond to translation updates quickly and uniformly from web | ||
| to RPM. | ||
| quaid | (user guide + install guide + release notes + | Apr 01 20:53 |
| security guide + selinux guide) * 10 $lang_average == about what we can | ||
| expect | ||
| spot | stickster: okay then. your only option is lang | Apr 01 20:53 |
| separated packages. | ||
| quaid | so not 2000, more like 50+ and not all at once | Apr 01 20:53 |
| spot | your biggest hurdle will be getting them | Apr 01 20:54 |
| reviewed | ||
| glezos | stickster, the Q is how quickly? We have | Apr 01 20:54 |
| the same needs with normal packages, but we don't have langpacks. | ||
| stickster | glezos: For much the same reasons | Apr 01 20:54 |
| stickster | Look, Docs is blazing a trail! | Apr 01 20:54 |
| quaid | we need a few sponsors in | Apr 01 20:54 |
| stickster | wooo | Apr 01 20:54 |
| quaid | Docs | Apr 01 20:54 |
| *quaid looks at ke4qqq | Apr 01 20:54 | |
| spot | you don't have to be a sponsor to do a review. | Apr 01 20:55 |
| spot | just sponsored. | Apr 01 20:55 |
| quaid | ok | Apr 01 20:55 |
| spot | and if you're low on that front, let me know | Apr 01 20:55 |
| quaid | I don't want the review process in our way. | Apr 01 20:55 |
| spot | i can almost certainly sponsor some folks | Apr 01 20:55 |
| stickster | I'm sponsored | Apr 01 20:55 |
| *quaid will sign up | Apr 01 20:55 | |
| stickster | I maintain some packages already | Apr 01 20:55 |
| *Sparks would like to be | Apr 01 20:55 | |
| stickster | What would be *most* helpful is for | Apr 01 20:56 |
| someoneNotMe() to write the template review. | ||
| quaid | Sparks: let's do it, like buddy parachuting! | Apr 01 20:56 |
| *izaac (n=izaac@fedora/izaac) has joined | Apr 01 20:56 | |
| #fedora-meeting | ||
| Sparks | If we could manage it all in house, that | Apr 01 20:56 |
| could alleviate some of the problems that we are facing, imo | ||
| stickster | If the template's there, I can commit to | Apr 01 20:56 |
| a mess o' reviews. | ||
| *Sparks votes to give all packages to stickster | Apr 01 20:56 | |
| for review | ||
| Sparks | quaid: Yeah! | Apr 01 20:57 |
| *spot hates to run, but is there anything else | Apr 01 20:57 | |
| you need from me? :) | ||
| Sparks | spot: What does it take to knight us? | Apr 01 20:57 |
| spot | Sparks: if by that you mean "sponsor", i just | Apr 01 20:57 |
| need to see that you possess basic RPM competancy and an understanding | ||
| of the Fedora Packaging Guidelines | ||
| spot | usually, i do that with a new package review | Apr 01 20:58 |
| *Sparks has had his package in review since | Apr 01 20:58 | |
| DECEMBER! | ||
| spot | Sparks: email me the bz | Apr 01 20:58 |
| spot | i will look at it tomorrow | Apr 01 20:58 |
| Sparks | spot: I will but you'll hate it. | Apr 01 20:58 |
| Sparks | :) | Apr 01 20:58 |
| Sparks | Okay, anything else for spot? | Apr 01 20:58 |
| spot | is it mono? java? | Apr 01 20:58 |
| jjmcd | Don't takt Sparks away from the Networking RNs | Apr 01 20:59 |
| spot | fortran77? | Apr 01 20:59 |
| Sparks | spot: Security-Guide | Apr 01 20:59 |
| quaid | Sparks: I think you have what you need if FESCo | Apr 01 20:59 |
| ratifies to get it approved, right? | ||
| Sparks | quaid: Kinda... | Apr 01 20:59 |
| quaid | he's already on the Cc: on that bug iirc | Apr 01 20:59 |
| Sparks | Ok | Apr 01 20:59 |
| Sparks | Thanks spot! Go have some supper. | Apr 01 20:59 |
| spot | thanks guys, good luck. | Apr 01 20:59 |
| quaid | so update the bug with the ratified guidelines | Apr 01 20:59 |
| as a tickler :) | ||
| quaid | thx Sparks | Apr 01 21:00 |
| quaid | spot I mean! | Apr 01 21:00 |
| *spot puts on his crash helmet and dives into a | Apr 01 21:00 | |
| foxhole | ||
| Sparks | spot: Yeah, that's probably needed. | Apr 01 21:00 |
| Sparks | Okay, so anything else on the topic? | Apr 01 21:00 |
| quaid | Docs_team++ | Apr 01 21:00 |
| Sparks | Okay... next up is... | Apr 01 21:00 |
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - | Apr 01 21:00 | |
| Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSC) Charter | ||
| Sparks | Wow, is this thing old... | Apr 01 21:01 |
| jjmcd | stable - better word | Apr 01 21:01 |
| *leitz | Apr 01 21:01 | |
| (n=leitz@adsl-21-134-243.clt.bellsouth.net) has joined #fedora-meeting | ||
| *lfoppiano has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Apr 01 21:01 | |
| Sparks | Apr 01 21:01 | |
| Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_charter | ||
| Sparks | jjmcd: Ha! | Apr 01 21:02 |
| Sparks | Oh, it's stable... and buggy | Apr 01 21:02 |
| Sparks | So I'm not going to get into it tonight | Apr 01 21:02 |
| but take a peek at it, add your comments to the Talk page, and we'll | ||
| come back to it next week. | ||
| Sparks | Questions? Comments? Crude remarks? | Apr 01 21:02 |
| quaid | mmm, tasty cruft | Apr 01 21:03 |
| Sparks | Okay... next up is... | Apr 01 21:03 |
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - | Apr 01 21:03 | |
| CMS Update <-- ke4qqq | ||
| Sparks | ke4qqq: What do you have for us tonight? | Apr 01 21:03 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: ??? | Apr 01 21:04 |
| Sparks | Okay, he might not be here tonight. I | Apr 01 21:05 |
| know the core has been packaged and he was working on getting modules | ||
| packaged. | ||
| Sparks | If anyone has some spare time I'm sure | Apr 01 21:05 |
| he could use you to work on packaging. | ||
| Sparks | Questions? Comments? | Apr 01 21:05 |
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - | Apr 01 21:05 | |
| DocsProject wiki pages changes | ||
| Sparks | Okay, so I archived some pages today | Apr 01 21:06 |
| that were dealing with FDSCo stuff from years past. | ||
| jjmcd | You're erasing our history??? | Apr 01 21:06 |
| Sparks | laubersm: What tasks are pending for the | Apr 01 21:06 |
| wiki? | ||
| *danielsmw gasps | Apr 01 21:06 | |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Archiving is NOT the same as | Apr 01 21:06 |
| erasing. | ||
| Sparks | gees | Apr 01 21:06 |
| *Sparks wishes he could archive jjmcd... :) | Apr 01 21:07 | |
| *danielsmw gasps again | Apr 01 21:07 | |
| jjmcd | That guy is nothing but trouble | Apr 01 21:07 |
| Sparks | Have we stayed up past everyone's bed | Apr 01 21:07 |
| time? | ||
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - | Apr 01 21:07 | |
| Open Discussion | ||
| jjmcd | I saw laubersm come in | Apr 01 21:07 |
| Sparks | Okay... It's late... does anyone have | Apr 01 21:08 |
| anything they want to talk about? | ||
| *glezos still sees his name on an FDSCo page and | Apr 01 21:08 | |
| wondering why the hell it's there since there are so many awesome guys | ||
| working on Docs today. | ||
| danielsmw | Oh, I have something to say | Apr 01 21:08 |
| stickster | It's better to burn out than to fade | Apr 01 21:08 |
| away! | ||
| *laubersm is on pda = slow typing | Apr 01 21:08 | |
| danielsmw | A while ago I made a compat package to | Apr 01 21:08 |
| make mw-render work again | ||
| Sparks | laubersm: yikes | Apr 01 21:08 |
| danielsmw | but i'm not getting sponsored because i | Apr 01 21:08 |
| basically do no other packaging | ||
| quaid | glezos: cruft abounds in the house of the | Apr 01 21:08 |
| carpenter | ||
| danielsmw | anyone else want to take it and submit? | Apr 01 21:08 |
| glezos | quaid, what can we do to change it? | Apr 01 21:08 |
| *inode0 (n=inode0@fedora/inode0) has joined | Apr 01 21:09 | |
| #fedora-meeting | ||
| quaid | glezos: volunteer to help clean up wiki pages :) | Apr 01 21:09 |
| Sparks | danielsmw: That sucks... Okay, so do | Apr 01 21:09 |
| you have a bz ticket #? | ||
| glezos | oh -- it's just wiki pages then. | Apr 01 21:09 |
| quaid | danielsmw: I think you should get to be the | Apr 01 21:09 |
| packager | ||
| danielsmw | Sparks: yeah, hold on | Apr 01 21:09 |
| danielsmw | quaid: a good idea as well | Apr 01 21:09 |
| quaid | glezos: well, maybe f-docs-l admin or something, | Apr 01 21:09 |
| stuff that's decentralized | ||
| danielsmw | Sparks: 491946 | Apr 01 21:09 |
| Sparks | .bug 491946 | Apr 01 21:10 |
| buggbot | Bug | Apr 01 21:10 |
| https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=491946 medium, low, | ||
| ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy | ||
| zodbot | Sparks: Bug 491946 Review Request: | Apr 01 21:10 |
| odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy - | ||
| https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=491946 | ||
| buggbot | Bug 491946: medium, low, ---, nobody, | Apr 01 21:10 |
| NEW, Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy | ||
| Sparks | stickster: you said you could review | Apr 01 21:11 |
| packages? | ||
| Sparks | :) | Apr 01 21:11 |
| quaid | how about abadger1999 or spot | Apr 01 21:11 |
| Sparks | Yeah, spot! | Apr 01 21:11 |
| Sparks | danielsmw: It took my package a while to | Apr 01 21:12 |
| get noticed. I think mhideo went and poked one of his Brisbane guys to | ||
| do it. | ||
| abadger1999 | k. I'll take it. | Apr 01 21:12 |
| Sparks | Now that's service right there. | Apr 01 21:12 |
| quaid | yeah, we can do better reviewing within this | Apr 01 21:12 |
| team | ||
| abadger1999 | Are we sure that the package can't be | Apr 01 21:12 |
| ported to the current version of odfpy? | ||
| danielsmw | lol | Apr 01 21:12 |
| quaid | and call in favors once it's ready to get | Apr 01 21:12 |
| sponsorship | ||
| Sparks | quaid: +1 | Apr 01 21:13 |
| Sparks | laubersm: Did you have anything for us | Apr 01 21:14 |
| tonight? | ||
| laubersm | no | Apr 01 21:14 |
| jjmcd | laubersm: Want to help with research/conversion? | Apr 01 21:14 |
| Sparks | laubersm: Okay, wanted to give you a | Apr 01 21:14 |
| chance to get in there with all the background noise going on. | ||
| quaid | jjmcd: I'm going to try really, really hard to | Apr 01 21:15 |
| appear at the right time and do whatever needs doing at that point. | ||
| quaid | is there an active Release notes tasks list? | Apr 01 21:15 |
| jjmcd | I have an ODS, I should make it a wikipage I | Apr 01 21:15 |
| guess | ||
| jjmcd | But I see things disappearing from the list as | Apr 01 21:16 |
| we speak | ||
| quaid | yes plz | Apr 01 21:16 |
| quaid | ah, your list | Apr 01 21:16 |
| quaid | we just need on of the usual status with tracker | Apr 01 21:16 |
| and who has what "write, edit, convert to xml" columns | ||
| jjmcd | yes, what I fpasted is basically the short | Apr 01 21:16 |
| version | ||
| *laubersm is teaching this on the road... will | Apr 01 21:16 | |
| check list tomorrow | ||
| jjmcd | I suspect by the end of the Brisbane workday the | Apr 01 21:17 |
| list may look different | ||
| laubersm | rn due thur? time in edt? | Apr 01 21:17 |
| jjmcd | Need pots by 2359 and we need some time to | Apr 01 21:17 |
| prepare the pots | ||
| jjmcd | 2359Z that is | Apr 01 21:18 |
| *warren has quit ("Leaving") | Apr 01 21:18 | |
| jjmcd | so 19L59 EDT | Apr 01 21:18 |
| *laubersm has time fri but that doesnt help | Apr 01 21:18 | |
| jjmcd | No, Friday we will be sorting the spec file and | Apr 01 21:19 |
| how to tear the big POs apart | ||
| *zwu has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Apr 01 21:19 | |
| quaid | I didn't see any more pushback or request for | Apr 01 21:19 |
| more time | ||
| quaid | but we'll likely see new content for the final | Apr 01 21:19 |
| notes | ||
| quaid | that might have been in this time, possibly | Apr 01 21:19 |
| maybe | ||
| jjmcd | quaid: We can make 2359, but the more hands the | Apr 01 21:19 |
| better the quality | ||
| quaid | righto | Apr 01 21:19 |
| rudi | Quick question - I feel like I'm missing the | Apr 01 21:20 |
| point of something here; why are the individual po files still a problem | ||
| for L10N? | ||
| *Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving") | Apr 01 21:20 | |
| jjmcd | Transifex only can deal with one | Apr 01 21:20 |
| jjmcd | Kinda like Publican, and easy fix but ...... | Apr 01 21:21 |
| rudi | But I've seen translators committing | Apr 01 21:21 |
| translations of the Publican Common Content sections; with more than one | ||
| po file in the directories in question | ||
| quaid | via Tx? | Apr 01 21:22 |
| rudi | Yep | Apr 01 21:22 |
| quaid | well, even after Paul and Dimitris explained it | Apr 01 21:22 |
| today, I still had gaps in my brain about it. | ||
| rudi | Let me verify what I believe I've seen; but we | Apr 01 21:23 |
| can talk about that after the meeting anyway | ||
| quaid | I got that the web interface doesn't have a way | Apr 01 21:23 |
| to display (for download, upload, statistics) the individual PO/POT | ||
| files | ||
| quaid | k | Apr 01 21:23 |
| Sparks | Anything else? | Apr 01 21:23 |
| Sparks | 5 | Apr 01 21:24 |
| Sparks | 4 | Apr 01 21:24 |
| Sparks | 3 | Apr 01 21:24 |
| Sparks | 2 | Apr 01 21:24 |
| Sparks | 1 | Apr 01 21:24 |
| Sparks | Thanks everyone for coming! | Apr 01 21:24 |
| Sparks | </meeting> | Apr 01 21:24 |