From Fedora Project Wiki
| Sparks | #startmeeting | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Sparks | #maintopic Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting | 00:01 |
| Sparks | Hmmm.... | 00:01 |
| Sparks | #topic Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting | 00:01 |
| Sparks | Roll Call!!! | 00:01 |
| * Sparks is here | 00:01 | |
| * radsy is here | 00:01 | |
| ianweller | hi! | 00:02 |
| * jjmcd is here | 00:02 | |
| joat | annette! | 00:02 |
| * ianweller adds something to the agenda really fast | 00:02 | |
| * poelcat here for ~ 30min (schedule worked out) | 00:02 | |
| * ianweller is done adding things to the agenda | 00:03 | |
| Sparks | poelcat: Great, we'll get you in at the beginning | 00:03 |
| * quaid is here | 00:03 | |
| Sparks | ianweller: noted | 00:03 |
| ianweller | Sparks: oh you were looking for #meetingtopic earlier instead of #maintopic | 00:03 |
| ianweller | Sparks: or you can pass that as an argument to #startmeeting. | 00:03 |
| * Sparks moves some things around... | 00:04 | |
| Sparks | ianweller: That's what I was looking for... Gees... | 00:04 |
| Sparks | TU | 00:04 |
| Sparks | Okay... I've modified the agenda a bit... | 00:05 |
| Sparks | #meetingtopic Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting | 00:06 |
| Sparks | #topic F12 Calendar <-- poelcat | 00:06 |
| Sparks | poelcat has been nice enough to create a calendar for us for the F12 release... | 00:06 |
| poelcat | looking to see if there was any feedback on the schedules I proposed | 00:06 |
| Sparks | and he sent it to everyone via the list. | 00:07 |
| Sparks | Has everyone looked at it? | 00:07 |
| poelcat | also curious if there was any interest in the ical/ics file? | 00:07 |
| * Sparks goes to get the links real quick. | 00:07 | |
| Sparks | poelcat: I like the ical... | 00:07 |
| ianweller | someone have a link handy? | 00:07 |
| quaid | it's worth having anyway | 00:07 |
| jjmcd | Don't know enough about what we are going to do to know whether it makes sense or not | 00:07 |
| Sparks | #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html | 00:08 |
| Sparks | #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-releng-tasks.html | 00:08 |
| Sparks | #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs.ics | 00:08 |
| Sparks | The first link is the docs tasks on a calendar... | 00:08 |
| Sparks | the second link is the docs + releng tasks on a calendar... | 00:08 |
| Sparks | and the third link is the docs ics | 00:08 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: This is the master calendar for the F12 release. | 00:09 |
| jjmcd | Yes, but I have significant questions | 00:09 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: go! | 00:09 |
| jjmcd | Now that alpha is a real alpha, for example, does the 1 page RN's make sense | 00:10 |
| jjmcd | Before alpha was a hoax, now it is feature complete | 00:10 |
| poelcat | i took the previous "beta" tasks and relabled them "alpha" | 00:10 |
| jjmcd | That is probably not too bad an approximation | 00:11 |
| jjmcd | Especially since we probably don't really know how alpha and beta will turn out | 00:11 |
| poelcat | the biggest things to consider are "is there enough time to do the tasks listed and do the order of events look right" | 00:11 |
| jjmcd | What Jesse things might not turne out | 00:12 |
| poelcat | + based on what you learned in F11... have we factored that in | 00:12 |
| jjmcd | I think that is a good start | 00:12 |
| poelcat | i can always change/adjust things | 00:13 |
| poelcat | and most importantly as you notice things in F12 that don't work well that you want to change for F13... tell me as they happen | 00:13 |
| poelcat | and i'll start factoring them into a draft for f13 | 00:13 |
| * poelcat says f13 for one more channel highlight for jesse ;-) | 00:14 | |
| Sparks | Gees, are we already thinking f13? | 00:14 |
| poelcat | well nobody else probably is, but I do :) | 00:14 |
| Sparks | I mean, gees, we just got done with f11 and we are already thinking f13? | 00:14 |
| Sparks | f13 | 00:14 |
| ianweller | always think ahead | 00:14 |
| Sparks | f13... Wow... f13 | 00:15 |
| Sparks | :) | 00:15 |
| quaid | yeah, poor Jesse | 00:15 |
| quaid | his nick will light up for _years_ | 00:15 |
| poelcat | another important thing to consider is handoffs between translation team and docs | 00:15 |
| poelcat | and to verify if those look right | 00:15 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: How long did it take the translators to finish the RN for f11? | 00:16 |
| jjmcd | several weeks - three i think | 00:16 |
| poelcat | i created another special version for that: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-trans-tasks.html | 00:16 |
| Sparks | and that's with making changes along the way, right? | 00:16 |
| jjmcd | yes | 00:16 |
| * Sparks would still like to figure out a better process so we aren't making so many changes | 00:17 | |
| jjmcd | I think it ought to go better with propere warning | 00:17 |
| Sparks | Yeah | 00:18 |
| Sparks | so any more input to the calendar? | 00:18 |
| Sparks | poelcat: Can you put our weekly meeting on the ics? | 00:19 |
| poelcat | Sparks: i can definitely try... there are some things that make creating the ics not so straight forward | 00:20 |
| Sparks | I can imagine. | 00:20 |
| Sparks | Okay, anything else about this topic? | 00:20 |
| poelcat | as just building the taskjuggler file, but it will either work or it won't | 00:20 |
| poelcat | the challenge is landing it at the right time | 00:20 |
| poelcat | i'll look into it | 00:20 |
| Sparks | Thanks | 00:20 |
| poelcat | what is the official meeting time in UTC ? | 00:21 |
| Sparks | 0001 UTC | 00:21 |
| Sparks | and we go for an hour or so | 00:21 |
| poelcat | got it.. that's all from me | 00:21 |
| Sparks | Thanks! | 00:21 |
| Sparks | Anyone else? | 00:21 |
| Sparks | #topic Status on CC license discussion. <--quaid | 00:21 |
| * Sparks hears quaid has news | 00:22 | |
| Sparks | quaid: Ummm... quaid? | 00:23 |
| joat | mebbe he didn't hear his que | 00:23 |
| quaid | ok | 00:23 |
| quaid | yeah, silent alarm or what | 00:23 |
| quaid | I don't have any more news than what was on list | 00:23 |
| quaid | i) we seem to have consensus | 00:23 |
| quaid | ii) but there is concern that people will feel overridden by the CLA directives being used | 00:23 |
| quaid | iii) I'm writing a blog post that gives all the Real and Great Reasons we need to enact the nuclear option in the CLA | 00:24 |
| quaid | once that is out there...maybe a thread'O'doom on f-devel-l is called for? | 00:24 |
| quaid | the point is, we need to alert people the change is imminent | 00:24 |
| quaid | maybe set a deadline for comments? 2 weeks? | 00:24 |
| quaid | and spread the word wide and noisy | 00:24 |
| quaid | wait | 00:24 |
| quaid | then do it | 00:24 |
| quaid | <eof. | 00:25 |
| quaid | comments? questions? | 00:25 |
| Sparks | Well... I'd like a quick vote... Does anyone have any problem with using the CLA to push the license change? | 00:25 |
| quaid | vote-- | 00:25 |
| Sparks | +1 to changing the license using the nuclear option | 00:25 |
| quaid | we have a consensus on list | 00:25 |
| rudi | +1 | 00:25 |
| quaid | if there are objections,we need to take them right back to the discussion, is all I'm saying. | 00:25 |
| Sparks | quaid: Yeah, I just want to make sure no one here has any problems that we can work on now. | 00:25 |
| quaid | so even a single -1 == back to the list IMO | 00:26 |
| Sparks | yes | 00:26 |
| quaid | did I sufficiently answer Sparks questions on list? | 00:26 |
| quaid | that was what made me realize I needed to do a wider post; reexplain from the top,etc. | 00:26 |
| ianweller | what? | 00:26 |
| quaid | ianweller: your coffee is boiling over | 00:26 |
| ianweller | ocrap | 00:27 |
| ianweller | ;) | 00:27 |
| ianweller | quaid: oh god a thread'O'doom?! | 00:27 |
| ianweller | i don't need more email than i'm already getting | 00:27 |
| Sparks | Anyone care to put a vote down or am I to assume that no vote is a +1 vote? | 00:28 |
| jjmcd | I'll vote 0 | 00:28 |
| quaid | ianweller: I expect arrows, mud,and pitch | 00:28 |
| ianweller | quaid: i expect all of that to be flaming. :( | 00:29 |
| quaid | when we tell people that the CLA needs to be used to change a license like that | 00:29 |
| * ianweller votes 0 on the proposal, i just wanna nuclearize it now ;) | 00:29 | |
| quaid | jjmcd: are you unsettled by something? | 00:29 |
| quaid | at the least,folks,make sure I answer all the questions when I write this article :) | 00:29 |
| jjmcd | I like the CC by SA, a little uncomfortable wit pushing too hard | 00:29 |
| quaid | my argument is that we are on a teeny, tiny island all by ourselves | 00:30 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: The problem we have is the problem of calling in everyone that has ever touched anything that is covered by the license. We just can't do that. | 00:30 |
| quaid | for example,we rewrite GNOME docs each release. | 00:30 |
| quaid | for our ability to do open content | 00:30 |
| jjmcd | Yeah, the best we can do is to get all our current contributors to buy in | 00:30 |
| quaid | the relicensing is crucial | 00:30 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Yes and I think we (Docs) has been doing that. | 00:31 |
| quaid | ok, I'll write my piece, cross post it,and see where that goes | 00:31 |
| jjmcd | I haven't heard objections, but I haven't heard from laubersm, don't recall Zach | 00:31 |
| quaid | OK with setting a 2 week deadline for discussion? | 00:31 |
| jjmcd | Sounds like a plan | 00:32 |
| quaid | Apache consensus rules are in effect | 00:32 |
| Sparks | quaid: Yes... 2 weeks from today. If we need to we'll hold a town hall meeting and I'll put you at the front of the room. :) | 00:32 |
| quaid | if someone doesn't speak up in a reasonable period of time, that is taken as consent :) | 00:32 |
| quaid | Sparks: OK! | 00:32 |
| jjmcd | But lets make a special effort to be sure the F10 contributors have heard the story | 00:32 |
| Sparks | :) | 00:32 |
| quaid | jjmcd: how? | 00:33 |
| quaid | that is, we've been discussing it on list for 6 weeks | 00:33 |
| jjmcd | Direct email to those that haven't been here - I doubt there's more than 2 or three | 00:33 |
| quaid | ok | 00:33 |
| * quaid will do that | 00:33 | |
| jjmcd | I don't forsee a problem, but some have been busy lately, I'm thinking of laubersm but I suspect there may be one or two others | 00:34 |
| Sparks | quaid: We can hit the list that goes to everyone that is on the Docs FAS group | 00:34 |
| quaid | Sparks: but they should all be on f-docs-l | 00:34 |
| quaid | I'll email people | 00:34 |
| quaid | who committed changes to any repo for the last two releases | 00:34 |
| jjmcd | Yeah, I don't know we need to go after the whole list - quaid - exactly | 00:35 |
| quaid | but I don't want to circumnavigate the established channels of communication. | 00:35 |
| quaid | the list == the channel, but hey :) | 00:35 |
| jjmcd | ;-) | 00:35 |
| jjmcd | After listening to Paul and Jan maybe I'm a little over sensitive | 00:36 |
| Sparks | Okay, anything else? | 00:36 |
| Sparks | #topic Ian has news from CC on the licensing change marketing whatnottery | 00:37 |
| Sparks | ianweller: Go! | 00:38 |
| Sparks | Is someone else asleep? | 00:39 |
| jjmcd | hmmm - while I was watching ianweller changed from 10 minutes ago to 144 minutes ago, whats up with that | 00:40 |
| Sparks | Okay, we'll come back to him. | 00:40 |
| ianweller | what? | 00:40 |
| ianweller | i'm here | 00:40 |
| ianweller | sorry :) | 00:40 |
| quaid | marketeer time | 00:40 |
| Sparks | ianweller: ^^^ topic | 00:40 |
| ianweller | http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-July/msg00003.html <-- got this from CC today. | 00:40 |
| ianweller | it's been sent to fedora-docs-list as you can tell. | 00:40 |
| ianweller | that's all i've got ;) | 00:40 |
| Sparks | ianweller: Well... what is it? | 00:42 |
| ianweller | that they're willing to make a blog post | 00:42 |
| ianweller | saying "hey look they switched licenses whee" | 00:42 |
| ianweller | and we just need top ing them when we're ready to do that | 00:42 |
| Sparks | cool | 00:43 |
| Sparks | Anyone have any questions? | 00:43 |
| Sparks | #topic Shared open-source style guide | 00:44 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: You around tonight? | 00:44 |
| Sparks | I guess not. | 00:45 |
| Sparks | I don't think there has been any change. Does anyone have any questions or comments? | 00:45 |
| ianweller | no | 00:46 |
| Sparks | #topic Bugzilla Component Changes | 00:46 |
| Sparks | #link User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table | 00:46 |
| Sparks | So I started the process of moving files around and removing the products from our BZ component. | 00:46 |
| Sparks | If anyone has a project that needs to be in BZ please let me know and I can get you setup pretty quickly. | 00:47 |
| Sparks | Anyone have any questions or comments? | 00:47 |
| Sparks | #topic | 00:48 |
| Sparks | #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets | 00:48 |
| Sparks | #link http://tinyurl.com/lgx98o | 00:48 |
| Sparks | If everyone would take a look at the above link... | 00:48 |
| ianweller | those tickets are just outstanding! ;) | 00:49 |
| Sparks | these are the outstanding tickets that were opened during the month of June that haven't been accepted. | 00:49 |
| Sparks | ianweller: Yes they are because these are tickets that people filed because they care enough about our products! | 00:49 |
| ianweller | :D | 00:49 |
| Sparks | I'm not going to go through them all tonight but I would like to start running through the ones we need to work on so we can respond to the appropriately. | 00:50 |
| Sparks | but feel free to take one! | 00:51 |
| Sparks | questions? | 00:52 |
| Sparks | #topic DocsProject wiki pages changes | 00:52 |
| Sparks | ianweller: What's the word on wikibot? | 00:52 |
| ianweller | it's on my to-do list | 00:52 |
| Sparks | Okay... | 00:53 |
| ianweller | IOW, nothing. :( | 00:53 |
| Sparks | Yeah... Well, we should probably revisit this again and see what needs to be done. | 00:54 |
| Sparks | questions? | 00:54 |
| Sparks | #topic With the new definition of alpha and beta, do we need to treat release notes differently? | 00:54 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Did you put this up there? | 00:54 |
| jjmcd | Yes | 00:55 |
| jjmcd | I wonder whether the one pager is in keeping with "feature complete" | 00:55 |
| jjmcd | Not sure that it is realistic to do much more so early tho | 00:55 |
| Sparks | the one pager? Is this the idea stickster_afk had at the FAD? | 00:55 |
| jjmcd | But I haven't fully digested the schedule and what it means | 00:56 |
| jjmcd | No, that's what poelcat just sait | 00:56 |
| jjmcd | said | 00:56 |
| jjmcd | What we used to do for beta | 00:56 |
| Sparks | Ahhh | 00:56 |
| Sparks | Well, if you want to do something different this time around I'm all ears. | 00:57 |
| jjmcd | f13 really wants alpha and beta to actually be alpha and beta, and I understand his point | 00:57 |
| jjmcd | but I obviously can't predict whether what he wants will actually happen | 00:57 |
| jjmcd | So perhaps this needs another week for a more meaningful discussion, with proposals for ppl to chew on | 00:58 |
| Sparks | worksfor me | 00:59 |
| jjmcd | I'll digest it all over the next week | 00:59 |
| jjmcd | Still haven't dug out from my email since I was away | 00:59 |
| jjmcd | All that Berliner Kindl you know | 00:59 |
| Sparks | :) | 01:00 |
| Sparks | okay, so we'll discuss it more next week. | 01:00 |
| jjmcd | Also I spoke with glezos and the German translator about their problems | 01:01 |
| Sparks | Anything to report? | 01:01 |
| jjmcd | Not really, just what you would expect, except perhaps | 01:01 |
| jjmcd | that the new transifex will help us both | 01:01 |
| rudi | Amen | 01:01 |
| Sparks | when will that be up and running? | 01:02 |
| rudi | Well, it's finally been packaged | 01:02 |
| Sparks | That's encouraging. | 01:02 |
| rudi | So I guess RSN :) | 01:02 |
| rudi | As I understand, that was the blocker | 01:03 |
| quaid | usually is | 01:03 |
| rudi | ;) | 01:03 |
| jjmcd | Also | 01:03 |
| * quaid >muffle, muffle, murg< | 01:03 | |
| jjmcd | spot didn't laugh too much at my spec file, so I guess I have more confidence in pushing to do whatever I need to in order to won that and get Jesse out of the loop | 01:04 |
| * ianweller has to run, bye | 01:04 | |
| jjmcd | s/won/own | 01:04 |
| jjmcd | seeYA ianweller | 01:04 |
| jjmcd | eof | 01:06 |
| Sparks | Okay, anything else? | 01:06 |
| Sparks | #topic Guide needs? | 01:06 |
| Sparks | Anyone have any needs for their guides? | 01:06 |
| Sparks | I guess not... | 01:07 |
| Sparks | #topic New Guides | 01:07 |
| Sparks | Okay, someone put down the RPM guide | 01:07 |
| Sparks | Who was that? | 01:07 |
| jjmcd | Florian asked if we could take over the rpm guide | 01:08 |
| jjmcd | apparently the guide in docs.fp.o might not be THE guide | 01:08 |
| Sparks | Who is Florian? | 01:08 |
| jjmcd | he is going to send me a link to their repo so I can look at it | 01:08 |
| Sparks | I have no problems with it. I have a ticket open for it to be moved to the wiki for redevelopment. | 01:08 |
| jjmcd | and then come to one of our meetings to discuss it | 01:08 |
| Sparks | .bug 508930 | 01:09 |
| jjmcd | I see that, not sure that wiki is the desired target but | 01:09 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=508930 medium, low, ---, fedora-docs-list, NEW, Move RPM Guide to wiki | 01:09 |
| zodbot | Sparks: Bug 508930 Move RPM Guide to wiki - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508930 | 01:09 |
| buggbot | Bug 508930: medium, low, ---, fedora-docs-list, NEW, Move RPM Guide to wiki | 01:09 |
| quaid | um what? | 01:09 |
| quaid | which guide is not which guide? | 01:09 |
| jjmcd | we can discuss it when we have him on channel | 01:09 |
| quaid | ok | 01:09 |
| quaid | fwiw, yeah, converting from XML to wiki is rarely a good idea :) | 01:09 |
| jjmcd | I think he is talking about the guide at rpm.org | 01:10 |
| jjmcd | Evidently the rpm guys can't even build th guide | 01:10 |
| Sparks | quaid: I know but things die in docs.fp.o, too | 01:10 |
| jjmcd | So for now, jut a heads up that this is coming | 01:11 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Cool | 01:11 |
| quaid | oh, I wonder if the one at rpm.org is the same guide, of sourts | 01:11 |
| Sparks | Anyone else? | 01:11 |
| quaid | ok, I'll hold my fire. | 01:11 |
| Sparks | #topic All other business | 01:13 |
| Sparks | Okay, does anyone have anything else? | 01:13 |
| Sparks | 5 | 01:14 |
| Sparks | 4 | 01:14 |
| Sparks | 3 | 01:14 |
| Sparks | 2 | 01:14 |
| Sparks | 1 | 01:14 |
| Sparks | Thanks for everyone coming! | 01:14 |
| Sparks | #endmeeting | 01:14 |