From Fedora Project Wiki
Attendees
People present (lines said):
- jlaska (103)
- kparal (56)
- adamw (38)
- jskladan (17)
- Viking-Ice (8)
- robatino (6)
- zodbot (4)
- mmcgrath (2)
- dafrito (1)
Regrets:
Agenda
Previous meeting follow-up
- jlaska to check-in with lmacken on the status of https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/ticket/424
- adamw to forward wwoods a good explanation of the nss-softokn problem scenario to ensure autoqa catches it in future
- jlaska to propose a clean-up of the Critical Path Packages wiki to be a suitable home for critpath information
F14 QA Recommendations
- Owner - User:Jlaska
- Summary
- Jlaska organized Fedora_13_QA_Retrospective feedback into a list of QA recommendations for Fedora 14.
- Next steps...
-
- All - Please review recommendations
- jlaska - will file a fedora-qa TRAC ticket for each recommendation. If you would like to work on a specific task, please also file a ticket.
Proventester Update
- Owner - User:Maxamillion, User:Adamwill
- Summary
- Adam Miller announced that the proventesters wiki page (QA/JoinProvenTesters) is no longer a draft.
- There are several TRAC requests to join the proventesters group.
- User:Adamwill drafted proventester instructions and sent to the list for review.
- Next steps
- Review and finalize adamw's proventesters instructions document (see User:Adamwill/Draft_proventesters_instructions)
- Waiting on feedback from lmacken on the status of https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/ticket/424 and re-enabling proventester karma for critpath packages
Systemd approved for Fedora 14
- Owner - User:Johannbg
- Summary
- Viking-ice noted that Features/systemd was approved by FESCO and wanted to propose several QA ideas.
- Next steps...
AutoQA
Validating Initscript Tests
- Owner - User:Jskladan
- Summary
- Josef asked for help in validating a new round of SysVinitscript AutoQA tests. See announcement and instructions and blog. Progress continues, and more help is needed to close out this task.
- Next steps...
- Continue to support volunteers
AutoQA Prioritization Update
- Owner - User:kparal
- Summary
- The immediate goal is to automate the QA:Package_Update_Acceptance_Test_Plan. The team met and discussed task priorities and agreed on the following prioritization
- Next steps...
- INPROGRESS - jlaska working with infrastructure on several tasks
infrastructure ticket#2221
- route http://autoqa.fedoraproject.org -> qa01infrastructure ticket#2230
- create mysql database for autotest on db1infrastructure ticket#2242
= Limit access to test systems qa01.c.fp.org through qa06.c.fp.org
- INPROGRESS - jlaska - set up another private virtual autotest-server
- jlaska - find a machine where resultdb may run (it can be VM, publicly accessible preferred)
- kparal - implement *quick* virtualization support --
autoqa ticket#181
- jskladan, wwoods - bodhi hook needs to be tested --
autoqa ticket#87
- jskladan, kparal, wwoods - continue implementing and testing resultdb --
autoqa ticket#145
Open discussion - <Your topic here>
TCs/RCs archive
- Owner - robatino
- Summary
- Andre asked about archiving old Release Candidate and Test Compose ISOs.
- Next steps...
- ACTION: robatino to ask infrastructure team to archive previous RCs/TCs (kparal, 15:57:23)
test case: ABI - stability check
- Owner - jlaska
- Summary
- ABI stability test proposed on planet.fedoraproject by Remi Collet (see http://blog.famillecollet.com/post/2010/06/20/ABI-:-stability-check)
- No active milestone for improving the rpm* tests, but this felt like a good test idea to capture for future improvement.
- Next steps ...
- ACTION: jlaska to create a ticket about possible enhancement/new test case for ABI stability check (kparal, 16:02:09)
Upcoming QA events
- 2010-07-08 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #1
- 2010-07-15 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #2
- 2010-07-22 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #3
- 2010-07-23 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (f14alpha) #1
- 2010-07-30 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (f14alpha) #2
Action items
- wwoods to evaluate nss-softokn dependency problem for proper 'depcheck' coverage
- jlaska to cleanup (or remove) the Critical Path Packages#Background section so that it provides _some_ value
- Viking-Ice will start 'how to debug systemd problems' guide and send to list for review
- jlaska to review F14 test day wiki content
- robatino to ask infrastructure team to archive previous RCs/TCs
- jlaska to create a ticket about possible enhancement/new test case for ABI stability check
IRC Transcript
jlaska | #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting | 14:59 |
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zodbot | Meeting started Mon Jun 21 14:59:57 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:59 |
zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 14:59 |
jlaska | #meetingname fedora-qa | 15:00 |
zodbot | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' | 15:00 |
jlaska | #topic Gathering critical mass | 15:00 |
* jskladan steps out of the shadows | 15:00 | |
jlaska | Hi folks, we'll get started shortly | 15:00 |
jlaska | jskladan: you lurker! :) | 15:00 |
adamw | morning | 15:01 |
* jlaska notes, I believe we are without wwoods today ... I gather he is on a train heading south right now | 15:01 | |
jlaska | adamw: howdy | 15:01 |
adamw | i would like to propose a new QA group motto | 15:01 |
adamw | from dedoimedo's F13 review - http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/fedora-13.html | 15:01 |
jlaska | adamw: let's hear it! | 15:01 |
adamw | "Testing Fedora is like stuffing a badger down your trousers; you don't really know when it's going to bite." | 15:02 |
* kparal here | 15:02 | |
jlaska | haha :)) | 15:02 |
jlaska | kparal: hi there | 15:02 |
jlaska | #idea New QA motto - "Testing Fedora is like stuffing a badger down your trousers; you don't really know when it's going to bite." | 15:02 |
kparal | should it be tested in practice first? | 15:02 |
* Viking-Ice joins in by shooting the bloody badger.. | 15:03 | |
jlaska | Viking-Ice: welcome | 15:03 |
jlaska | alright, I think we have enough to get started | 15:03 |
jlaska | Unfortunately, today is my double booked meeting day ... I've asked kparal to take over when I need to step out | 15:04 |
jlaska | so everyone be nice to kparal! :) | 15:04 |
jlaska | #chair kparal | 15:04 |
zodbot | Current chairs: jlaska kparal | 15:04 |
jlaska | #topic Previous meeting follow-up | 15:04 |
jlaska | #info jlaska to check-in with lmacken on the status of https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/ticket/424 | 15:04 |
* adamw throws rotten fruit at kparal | 15:05 | |
jlaska | I don't have any updates on this ticket, I wager others in rel-eng or infrastructure might know more | 15:05 |
* kparal dodges | 15:05 | |
* jlaska pictures Kamil dodging the flying tomato ala 'the matrix' | 15:05 | |
jlaska | I'll try find luke and see if there are any updates | 15:06 |
jlaska | anyone else have news on this front? | 15:06 |
jlaska | alright, next up ... | 15:06 |
jlaska | #info adamw to forward wwoods a good explanation of the nss-softokn problem scenario to ensure autoqa catches it in future | 15:06 |
jlaska | Adam knocked this off the list iirc | 15:07 |
adamw | yup, sent to autoqa-devel | 15:07 |
jlaska | #link https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000703.html | 15:07 |
jlaska | adamw: awesome thanks, hopefully that is something 'depcheck' has covered. | 15:07 |
kparal | I haven't really understood whether the test for catching these issues would be hard or easy to code | 15:07 |
jlaska | wwoods isn't here, but I can add a discussion topic to review your nss scenario | 15:08 |
kparal | well, if it should be covered by depcheck we can wait a week for wwoods | 15:08 |
jlaska | #action wwoods to evaluate nss-softokn dependency problem for proper 'depcheck' coverage | 15:09 |
kparal | I had the impression a new test case would be needed | 15:09 |
adamw | i suspect it's something that probably isn't covered yet | 15:09 |
jlaska | kparal: maybe, if you have any ideas feel free to drop them in response to adam's note | 15:09 |
adamw | since the key issue is you need to look at whether packages will be pushed to certain repos, as well as the packages themselves | 15:10 |
* jlaska hasn't yet fully absorbed the failure ... so I'm glad you have! :) | 15:10 | |
kparal | well I haven't, I have just a faint idea, that's why I asked :) | 15:10 |
jlaska | okay, so we've got this as something to check-in on next week ... hopefully we know more then | 15:10 |
jlaska | Next up ... | 15:11 |
jlaska | #info jlaska to propose a clean-up of the Critical Path Packages wiki to be a suitable home for critpath information | 15:11 |
jlaska | kparal and adamw, you guys noted that the current Critical Path Packages wiki page didn't have the information you wanted (or needed to link to) | 15:11 |
kparal | that page received some heavy editing in the meantime | 15:11 |
jlaska | yeah, I tried to fill the gaps, and then got a lot of help from alaxlan and dafrito | 15:12 |
jlaska | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Critical_Path_Packages | 15:12 |
jlaska | I also filed rel-eng TRAC ticket to see if we can get a more consistent URL for the latest critpath.txt file (see http://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/3802) | 15:12 |
jlaska | that would help not having to guess where the current critpath list is | 15:12 |
kparal | yea, that would be great, stable URL | 15:13 |
jlaska | anyhow, this page came up during the FESCO meeting last week, so I suspect others are paying attention and will be helping improve the content | 15:13 |
adamw | the 'background' section seems spectacularly useless (it's not practical information, just a nugget of historical interest). other than that, looks great | 15:13 |
* kparal thinks he created a ticket for in some time ago at our trac | 15:13 | |
jlaska | kparal: ooh, sorry, pass me the ticket and I'll connect the dots | 15:13 |
jlaska | adamw: what kind of info would you expect to see there? | 15:13 |
* kparal looking | 15:14 | |
adamw | well, there's two ways to look at it | 15:14 |
* jlaska goes to listen mode | 15:14 | |
adamw | if we can't think of anything useful to put there, why have the section at all? | 15:14 |
kparal | jlaska: here's the ticket I filed https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/60 | 15:14 |
jlaska | kparal: thx | 15:15 |
adamw | but if you want an idea of something possibly useful to go there: an explanation of why the critpath proposal came about - what problems is it trying to solve? | 15:15 |
kparal | I agree with adamw | 15:15 |
jlaska | adamw: okay, thanks ... I'll revisit | 15:16 |
jlaska | #action jlaska to cleanup (or remove) the Critical Path Packages#Background section so that it provides _some_ value | 15:16 |
jlaska | thanks gents | 15:16 |
jlaska | okay ... agenda time ... | 15:16 |
jlaska | #topic F14 QA Recommendations | 15:16 |
jlaska | nothing tremendously new here ... other than to say ... | 15:17 |
jlaska | #info Jlaska organized Fedora_13_QA_Retrospective feedback into a list of QA recommendations for Fedora 14. | 15:17 |
jlaska | I've not yet heard any alarming feedback around "good lord no!" | 15:17 |
jlaska | my next step is to start filing fedora-qa tickets for the main tasks | 15:18 |
jlaska | some of the things on the list are tasks folks are always actively working | 15:18 |
jlaska | so I may assign some of those tickets to you | 15:18 |
jlaska | don't panic" | 15:18 |
jlaska | s/^/"/ | 15:18 |
jlaska | Ideally, we can start picking off tickets from the open fedora-qa F14 ticket queue | 15:19 |
jlaska | and if folks are looking for ways to get involved, hopefully that queue provides a list of ideas | 15:19 |
jlaska | Please feel free to shout if you have any concerns/ideas/complaints | 15:19 |
* kparal haven't had time to study it yet, but will provide feedback soon | 15:20 | |
jlaska | kparal: thx | 15:20 |
jlaska | I'm still grappling with how to see this through, but I think I'd like a page that lists all the improvements, provides tickets to follow-up and provide improved measurement of improvements etc... | 15:21 |
jlaska | I'd like to have better visibility into the cool things (and the sometimes painful tasks) we all do to prepare for a great release | 15:22 |
jlaska | I think this will help, but as always, ideas/suggestions welcome | 15:22 |
jlaska | okay, next up | 15:22 |
jlaska | #topic Proventester Update | 15:22 |
jlaska | I think maxamillion has a conflict with this time slot :( | 15:23 |
jlaska | adamw: are you able to give an update? | 15:23 |
adamw | whoops, sorry, multitasking | 15:23 |
adamw | sure, partially | 15:23 |
adamw | on our side, we're now just working on the instructions for proven testers, which we've been thrashing out on the list. with big thanks to Aaron Faanes for his great revisions. I need to make a few suggested changes to his last draft and then we | 15:24 |
adamw | we'll probably be close to done | 15:24 |
adamw | the other Thing That Needs To Happen is simply for the actual update gating system to be switched on; there's not a lot of point in having a proventesters policy and team if updates aren't actually considering proventester input | 15:25 |
adamw | i believe jlaska was liasing with releng about that | 15:25 |
jlaska | adamw: you bet, I've got that on my radar to follow-up with lmacken on | 15:26 |
jlaska | adamw: I'll let you know what comes out of that | 15:26 |
* jlaska <hearts> Aaron Faanes wiki contributions :) | 15:27 | |
jlaska | adamw: cool, thanks for the update | 15:27 |
dafrito | jlaska: I'd be willing to work on editing the Critical Path Packages#Background article with you, if you want. I'll probably end up touching it anyway while I work with adamw on proventesters | 15:29 |
jlaska | ah dafrito == Aaron ... welcome | 15:29 |
adamw | yay dafrito | 15:29 |
jlaska | dafrito: many thanks for the critical path wiki changes! | 15:29 |
jlaska | okay, next topic was proposed by Viking-Ice | 15:30 |
jlaska | #topic Systemd QA preparation | 15:30 |
jlaska | #info Viking-ice noted that Features/systemd was approved by FESCO and wanted to propose several QA ideas. | 15:30 |
jlaska | this was discussed briefly on IRC by Viking-Ice and adamw ... I'm not sure if what is needed to follow-up with | 15:31 |
Viking-Ice | yea basically we need to start testing this as early as possible | 15:31 |
jlaska | one take-away for me is to start up the wiki details of F14 test days | 15:31 |
jlaska | Viking-Ice: would another debugging guide, much like you did for dracut, be helpful here? | 15:32 |
adamw | i've mailed lennart to ask if he'd be interested in having a systemd test day | 15:32 |
adamw | ooh, debugging guide sounds like a good idea. | 15:32 |
jlaska | #info adamw reached out to lennart for interest on a F14 test day | 15:32 |
Viking-Ice | jlaska: yup I see if I cant throw together systemd wikipage with debug guide | 15:32 |
* kparal is enthusiastic about systemd | 15:32 | |
jlaska | Viking-Ice: cool, I'd love to help, but I admit I know nothing about it. I'll be glad to assist with some wiki-foo if needed | 15:33 |
Viking-Ice | atleast someone needs to read over the page due to my exceptional good english hehe | 15:34 |
adamw | i like the idea, i hope the implementation process isn't too full of pain. =) | 15:34 |
Viking-Ice | selinux fucked as is | 15:34 |
jlaska | Viking-Ice: sure, do you want to send it to test@ whenever you have something you feedback on? | 15:34 |
adamw | Viking-Ice: sure, if you follow the usual process (post first version / draft of page to the list for comments) i'll be happy to proof it | 15:34 |
Viking-Ice | yup I'll send something to the list as soon as I have something | 15:34 |
jlaska | thanks! | 15:35 |
adamw | cool | 15:35 |
Viking-Ice | we need to make a decision when to switch to systemd by default | 15:35 |
adamw | Viking-Ice: that's more of an engineering decision than a qa one | 15:35 |
jlaska | #action Viking-Ice will start 'how to debug systemd problems' guide and send to list for review | 15:35 |
Viking-Ice | we need to check all run level cli foo service commands etc.. | 15:36 |
jlaska | #action jlaska to review F14 test day wiki content | 15:36 |
adamw | i'm trying to think whether there's any obvious bear traps we should watch out for in relation to systemd | 15:37 |
adamw | the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are related to That Other Repo, so i'll look at that in my personal time... | 15:38 |
jlaska | we have pre-branch test runs of F14 content in the schedule, we could use those images for discovery of pain points etc... | 15:38 |
adamw | yeah, we'll probably just run into them as they crop up. i'm just trying to think of things that may be big problems we don't quite catch with our planned testing. | 15:38 |
* jlaska hands baton to kparal | 15:38 | |
* jlaska goes into lurk mode | 15:39 | |
kparal | alright, systemd finished? | 15:39 |
kparal | #topic AutoQA updates (initscripts, prioritization status) | 15:40 |
jskladan | OK, that one's on me :) | 15:40 |
kparal | jskladan go! | 15:40 |
jskladan | so, not much happened during the last week, but we have some news :) | 15:41 |
jskladan | initscripts - scott fergusson finished mysql review and he boldly goes to do some more already | 15:41 |
adamw | yay | 15:42 |
jlaska | go Scott go | 15:42 |
jskladan | and i'm currently 'mentoring' two more guys, who'd like to contribute, but seem kind of helpless at the moment | 15:42 |
jskladan | so i wrote a huuuge email explaining the lines on the 'todo list' | 15:42 |
jskladan | jlaska: you should have been cc'd | 15:42 |
jskladan | so i'll probably put it on the wiki | 15:43 |
jskladan | ad AutoQA - jlaska is the man of the week | 15:43 |
jskladan | he worked hard on gaining some machines | 15:43 |
jskladan | https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000687.html | 15:43 |
jskladan | so it seems that we'll have testing instances in no time :) | 15:44 |
* jskladan likes :) | 15:44 | |
* jlaska notes, mmcgrath and smooge get the honors for this | 15:44 | |
jlaska | I'm just the messenger (don't shoot me) | 15:44 |
jskladan | and also started with the new bodhi hook testing https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000688.html | 15:44 |
adamw | six servers? surely you don't need all of those, send one to me ;) | 15:45 |
mmcgrath | jlaska: just so I'm aware, you're no longer blocking on us for anything except qa2 right? | 15:45 |
jlaska | adamw: hah, gladly! | 15:45 |
jlaska | mmcgrath: I have 2 outstanding items I spoke to smooge about. 1) Creating a db1 mysql db, and 2) updating ACL's so that qa0[1-6].c.fp.org are only accessible from bastion (or from autoqa01.phx) | 15:46 |
jlaska | mmcgrath: I need to get a ticket in for #2 | 15:46 |
kparal | #info jskladan wrote an explanation how to contribute with initscripts, will put it on the wiki | 15:46 |
mmcgrath | <nod> we'll probably just have you do iptables. It'd work and is easy to make alterations to when the time comes. | 15:47 |
kparal | #info jlaska gathered huge number of machines available for autoqa testing | 15:47 |
jskladan | and I also approached Ray Chen, who wrote quite a blog about fedora qa tools <http://blog.chinaunix.net/u2/68938/showart.php?id=2250919> and gess what - he is thrilled to join us :) he has a great insight on virtualization, so i'll write down some status report on the virtualization milestone, put it on wiki and will get the guy in the loop :) (and we could have the 'full' virt support in no time :)) | 15:47 |
jlaska | #info Infrastructure team comes to QA's rescue -- thanks mmcgrath and smooge! | 15:48 |
kparal | #info jskladan recruited another volunteer to help up with virtualization, Ray Chen | 15:48 |
kparal | great jskladan | 15:49 |
jskladan | which is just about it on AutoQA, i guess... I'm currently working on some frontends and stuff (stay tuned :) ) | 15:49 |
jskladan | so once the machines are up'n'running we'll have some fireworks :) | 15:49 |
kparal | alright, thanks for the update | 15:50 |
kparal | I had some vacation but aside from it I was working on forcing some tests to be executed inside virtual machines instead of on bare metal machines | 15:50 |
kparal | it looks good, I will have more updates next time | 15:50 |
kparal | that covers AutoQA then | 15:51 |
kparal | #topic Open discussion <your topic here> | 15:51 |
kparal | unleash your ideas now... | 15:52 |
robatino | i was wondering about archiving all the TCs/RCs | 15:52 |
jlaska | #info Interesting test idea for anyone interested -- http://blog.famillecollet.com/post/2010/06/20/ABI-:-stability-check | 15:52 |
kparal | #topic TCs/RCs archive | 15:52 |
kparal | robatino: that should be discussed with infrastructure guys I guess | 15:53 |
kparal | maybe the storage space would be problem | 15:53 |
robatino | delta compression such as disos could be used for the install images (except for netinst) | 15:53 |
robatino | if they are available quickly that would also take care of http://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/3575 | 15:54 |
kparal | what would be the benefit of such archival? | 15:54 |
kparal | s/archival/archiving | 15:54 |
adamw | well, we obviously had a case this week where we'd like to see how the previous builds behaved | 15:54 |
robatino | bugs such as https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=597283 that only affect a few people and can't get caught during testing | 15:54 |
kparal | oh that's true | 15:54 |
adamw | the mysterious x86-64 dvd boot fail on gigabyte motherboards issue | 15:54 |
kparal | ok, do you think we should file a ticket at infrastructure team? | 15:55 |
kparal | to hear their opinion | 15:55 |
kparal | if there is enough storage space it would be beneficial to have it available at least until a new Fedora is released | 15:56 |
adamw | sure | 15:56 |
kparal | who's the voluteer for writing that ticket? robatino? :) | 15:56 |
kparal | *volunteer | 15:57 |
robatino | yes, i could do that | 15:57 |
kparal | #action robatino to ask infrastructure team to archive previous RCs/TCs | 15:57 |
kparal | ok, please provide url then | 15:57 |
robatino | will do | 15:57 |
kparal | #topic test case: ABI - stability check | 15:58 |
kparal | so, we have some idea from jlaska | 15:58 |
kparal | #info http://blog.famillecollet.com/post/2010/06/20/ABI-:-stability-check | 15:58 |
kparal | #link http://blog.famillecollet.com/post/2010/06/20/ABI-:-stability-check | 15:58 |
kparal | jlaska: do you have some time to provide more details on that? | 15:59 |
jlaska | kparal: I'll see what i can dig up. At first glance, it seemed like a good idea for consideration into the future rpmguard/rpmlint redesigned framework | 15:59 |
jlaska | again ... very far off there | 15:59 |
jlaska | s/there/here/ | 15:59 |
adamw | so afaict it's a tool for checking whether the ABI has changed between two upstream releases | 15:59 |
jlaska | right on | 15:59 |
adamw | to be used if we don't trust upstream's process for identifying / notifying of ABI change? | 16:00 |
adamw | because usually, y'know, we get that info from upstream | 16:00 |
adamw | or to be used if we (QA) don't trust the packagers? =) | 16:00 |
kparal | ok, sounds good. so we should create a ticket at autoqa trac for it? | 16:00 |
kparal | to be implemented as a test case when time permits | 16:01 |
jlaska | I can toss this into a ticket, I don't think this applies to any active milestones ... but seemed like a good idea | 16:01 |
kparal | or maybe an enhancement for our rpm* tools | 16:01 |
kparal | yes, it is | 16:01 |
kparal | #action jlaska to create a ticket about possible enhancement/new test case for ABI stability check | 16:02 |
jlaska | definitely, under the framework ideas you and skvidal discussed ... hand wave ... fast fwd to when we have time to complete that ... this seems like a good candidate test | 16:02 |
kparal | ok, thanks! | 16:02 |
kparal | #topic Open discussion <your topic here> | 16:02 |
kparal | more ideas! | 16:02 |
* adamw has nuthun' | 16:04 | |
kparal | ok, let's close it, thanks everyone for attending | 16:04 |
kparal | #endmeeting | 16:04 |
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