From Fedora Project Wiki
Attendees
People present (lines said)
- jlaska (97)
- wwoods (28)
- kparal (21)
- adamw (16)
- nirik (10)
- mkrizek (5)
- jskladan (4)
- fenris02 (3)
- jsmith (3)
- jskladan_lunch (2)
- maxamillion (1)
Unable to attend:
Agenda
Previous meeting follow-up
- None
Ticket cleanup
- Owner
- jlaska
- Summary
- Cleaning up F14 tickets in fedora-qa TRAC instance
- Next steps ...
- File tickets for F15 QA ideas/topics
- Jlaska planning to create tickets in response to the retrospective items
RFE - draft OpenLDAP test case
- Owner
- jvcelak
- Summary
- jvcelak documented basic test instructions for
openldap-servers - Next steps ...
- Looking for volunteer to draft a test case using provided instructions
Call for Test Days
- Owner
- jlaska
- Summary
- Call for ideas/owners for Fedora 15 QA/Test_Days
- Monitor list of approved features for ideas
- AdamW initiated GNOME3 discussion on desktop@ list
- Next steps ...
Create fedora-qa ticket
AutoQA Update
- Owner
- kparal
- Summary
- Updated roadmap wiki at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AutoQA_Roadmap
autoqa ticket#244(fas.conf) now in master - http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=autoqa.git;a=commit;h=1b1d73030401a5859751b871043c15a2f8877064- mkrizek working on
autoqa ticket#205, see mkrizek branch (http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=autoqa.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/mkrizek) - Wwoods working on
autoqa ticket#248-- bad things happen if -pending set changes while test is running - Next steps ...
- Wwoods posting blog article explaining the need for
autoqa ticket#248 - Depcheck may need to be updated to provide bodhi feedback for each
$basearch - Jskladan rewriting bodhi watcher to work with depcheck (encountering depcheck issues)
Open discussion - <Your topic here>
Updates improvements/changes ideas
- Owner
- nirik
- Summary
- Nirik pointed out there was a long thread on the devel list recently about updates and updates process, etc.
- Nirik gathered up all the suggestions (good or bad) in a list for FESCO to review
- Nirik asked for Fedora QA feedback on the suggestions
- Next steps ...
- Nirik to start discussion on test list (see http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2010-November/095756.html)
- All - provide feedback on ideas
Action items
- jlaska to prep F15 test day wiki and request ideas on test@
IRC Transcript
| jlaska | #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Mon Nov 29 16:00:15 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 16:00 |
| jlaska | #meetingname fedora-qa | 16:00 |
| zodbot | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' | 16:00 |
| jlaska | #topic Waiting for participants... | 16:00 |
| * jskladan_lunch lurks | 16:00 | |
| adamw | yo | 16:00 |
| * jskladan_lunch heh, seems like a long lunch :) | 16:00 | |
| * mkrizek is here | 16:01 | |
| jlaska | jskladan: welcome you lurker :) | 16:01 |
| jlaska | mkrizek: do you have lecture today? | 16:01 |
| mkrizek | jlaska: yes, but I am not there:) | 16:01 |
| jlaska | mkrizek: secret is safe with me :) | 16:01 |
| mkrizek | jlaska: I gave up on math | 16:01 |
| jlaska | sounds like a good t-shirt idea | 16:01 |
| jskladan | hehe | 16:02 |
| mkrizek | :) | 16:02 |
| * kparal here | 16:02 | |
| jlaska | kparal: adamw: hello | 16:02 |
| jlaska | anyone else lurking? | 16:02 |
| jlaska | wwoods around? | 16:02 |
| jlaska | #info Proposed meeting agenda - http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2010-November/095754.html | 16:03 |
| * wwoods here! | 16:03 | |
| jlaska | wwoods: yay, welcome back | 16:03 |
| jlaska | Alright, let's get started ... will certainly welcome any late #joins | 16:04 |
| jlaska | #topic Previous meeting follow-up | 16:04 |
| jlaska | We had no meeting last week ... so I'm not aware of any follow-up items | 16:04 |
| jlaska | I've been working the QA recommendations and prepping for creating new tickets | 16:05 |
| jlaska | so that'll explain our first topic | 16:05 |
| jlaska | anything else folks wanted to raise before we dive in? | 16:05 |
| jlaska | alright | 16:06 |
| jlaska | #topic Tickets please! | 16:06 |
| jlaska | A bit late ... but just a heads up on the ticket traffic to the mailing list | 16:06 |
| jlaska | I've been kicking some older F14 fedora-qa tickets ... and will start filing for F15 shortly | 16:06 |
| jlaska | So apologies for the mail volume :) | 16:07 |
| jlaska | As always ... if anyone wants to recommend something for F15, tickets welcome | 16:07 |
| jlaska | #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/roadmap | 16:07 |
| jlaska | This concludes the public service announcement on tickets (sort of) | 16:07 |
| jlaska | #topic Draft OpenLDAP test case | 16:08 |
| jlaska | This topic came up on the list as a result of a recent openldap update | 16:08 |
| jlaska | #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2010-November/095719.html | 16:08 |
| jlaska | Basically, nirik and jvcelak were discussing documenting the steps to test the openldap-servers package | 16:08 |
| wwoods | hooray! I like it when maintainers / experts give test cases. | 16:08 |
| adamw | yup | 16:09 |
| jlaska | yeah definitely | 16:09 |
| jlaska | I thought this might be a good opportunity to see if anyone wanted to volunteer to wiki-ize that test case | 16:09 |
| jlaska | This couples with another topic for F15, in terms of providing a structure for organizing proventester tests on the wiki | 16:10 |
| jlaska | but for now ... this seemed like a nice K.I.S.S. example to try | 16:10 |
| jlaska | if no one is anxious to grab this ... I'll add a #help to the minutes | 16:11 |
| adamw | if we get a test case i'll wikify it | 16:11 |
| adamw | as you said we need to set up some kind of structure for this | 16:11 |
| adamw | and ideally link it in to bodhi so when you see a testing update notification for a package with a test case there's a link to the test case... | 16:11 |
| jlaska | adamw: yeah ... that's the direction I think we'd all like to see it move | 16:12 |
| jlaska | linking this stuff together, providing quick+easy instructions for how to add content | 16:12 |
| jlaska | These proventester requests from maintainers seem like really good opportunities to document some test instructions | 16:13 |
| jlaska | I can definitely help on the wiki side ... but I think we need volunteers to talk through the basic instructions with the maintainer so we know what to document | 16:13 |
| jlaska | this seems like a good challenge for proventesters, but writing wiki pages isn't the most exciting thing for some people | 16:14 |
| jlaska | I don't mind wiki work myself ... but I'd need help from proventesters to ask questions from maintainers, get instructions, and maybe file fedora-qa TRAC tickets so we can integrate this stuff | 16:14 |
| adamw | sure | 16:15 |
| jlaska | So ... look for more discussion on this going forward. As always, we don't have all the answers, but are looking for someone interested in breaking new ground to figure out a good workflow here | 16:15 |
| adamw | let's just do one first | 16:15 |
| jlaska | exactly | 16:15 |
| jlaska | so in the meantime ... let's figure out how to get some repeatable instructions out of the thread (http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2010-November/095719.html) | 16:16 |
| fenris02 | openldap test case ... run migratetools and then run queries that you can verify against the /etc files | 16:16 |
| fenris02 | if either the migrate or the query fails, the test fails as a whole | 16:16 |
| jlaska | fenris02: cool, that's the kind of stuff we'd be looking to start fleshing out on the list | 16:16 |
| jlaska | Alright ... anything else on this topic? Otherwise, I'll move on ... | 16:17 |
| fenris02 | migareteools is already in the repo, and already works - so it's really just to wrap a script around the process | 16:17 |
| jlaska | fenris02: sounds like you might be on to something, let's bring that up in front of the maintainers for input/feedback | 16:18 |
| jlaska | #topic Call for F15 Test Days | 16:18 |
| jlaska | Another public service announcement requesting Test Day ideas and hosts | 16:19 |
| jlaska | There are a few topics which will likely make for good events already ... | 16:19 |
| wwoods | is there a mail thread for this, so I don't repeat already-suggested ideas? | 16:19 |
| wwoods | or perhaps they're already on the wiki page? | 16:19 |
| jlaska | wwoods: not yet, but I can kick one off | 16:19 |
| jlaska | ... if that would help get ideas flowing | 16:20 |
| wwoods | or use the Talk: section of the appropriate wiki page to collect ideas | 16:20 |
| jlaska | #action jlaska to prep F15 test day wiki and request ideas on test@ | 16:20 |
| jlaska | wwoods: good suggestion, thanks | 16:20 |
| wwoods | might be a good idea - I'd like to get some suggestions from the desktop/gnome3 hackers | 16:20 |
| adamw | already working on that | 16:20 |
| adamw | see desktop list archives | 16:20 |
| jlaska | yeah ... GNOME3 will have some representation I'm sure (adamw) | 16:20 |
| wwoods | "GNOME3" itself is too broad but I'm sure there are some specific areas that would benefit from a test day | 16:21 |
| jlaska | xorg-x11-drv again I bet? | 16:21 |
| adamw | yes | 16:21 |
| jlaska | systemd | 16:21 |
| adamw | yes | 16:21 |
| jsmith | Yeah... I've been doing some jhbuild tests -- and I'm sure some others would love to test as well | 16:21 |
| jlaska | ABRT retraceserver | 16:21 |
| adamw | jsmith: no rawhide? wimp | 16:21 |
| jlaska | #link Good place to watch for ideas - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/15/FeatureList | 16:21 |
| jlaska | okay, so I'll take action to prep the wiki and follow-up on test@lists.fp.org | 16:22 |
| jsmith | adamw: That's on my to-do list this week :-p | 16:22 |
| wwoods | i've been doing rawhide + jhbuild gnome-shell. actually RAWER than rawhide. woo, yeh, &c | 16:22 |
| adamw | heh | 16:22 |
| jlaska | linking to what adamw has already kicked off w/ GNOME3 at http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2010-November/006702.html | 16:22 |
| jsmith | adamw: (although the last time I ran rawhide, the Gnome Shell packages weren't the most up to date) | 16:22 |
| adamw | they're pretty up to date now. | 16:22 |
| jlaska | #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2010-November/006702.html | 16:22 |
| jlaska | #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Test_Days | 16:22 |
| adamw | they were kept intentionally old in F14 because we couldn't package the newest gnome shell and still keep f14 a gnome2 environment. | 16:22 |
| jlaska | Alright ... any other thoughts around F15 Test Days before moving on? | 16:23 |
| * jlaska intends to follow the same wiki schedule + TRAC ticket approach we used for the last 2 releases | 16:23 | |
| jlaska | moving along ... next topic | 16:24 |
| jlaska | #topic AutoQA Update | 16:24 |
| jlaska | kparal: take it away | 16:24 |
| * kparal stops eating peanuts | 16:25 | |
| kparal | let's go :) | 16:25 |
| jlaska | heh | 16:25 |
| kparal | it was quite some time from last AutoQA update, so I don't precisely remember what was said, maybe I'll repeat something | 16:25 |
| kparal | we created a nice roadmap, thanks jlaska for improving the layout: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AutoQA_Roadmap | 16:26 |
| jlaska | #info Updated roadmap wiki at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AutoQA_Roadmap | 16:26 |
| kparal | we're now busy working on 0.4.4 milestone: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/0.4.4 | 16:26 |
| kparal | I'm glad we all are finally working on the same task, I feel it moves forward much faster now | 16:27 |
| wwoods | hooray! | 16:28 |
| kparal | today I have pushed support for fas.conf (ticket 244), and when mkrizek finished his patch (ticket 205), we will be able to send comments to Bodhi | 16:28 |
| kparal | upgradepath is expected to be the first test bunny (what's the expression in english?:) ) | 16:29 |
| wwoods | guinea pig! | 16:29 |
| kparal | right! :) | 16:29 |
| wwoods | (man, that's a weird expression now that I think of it) | 16:29 |
| wwoods | space monkey. | 16:29 |
| kparal | jskladan in the mean time works on rewriting our bodhi watcher so that it works great with depcheck once it's ready | 16:29 |
| * maxamillion is here .... wayyyyy late, but here | 16:30 | |
| jskladan | kparal: the bodhi watcher is done - I've been fighting with the depcheck lately | 16:30 |
| jskladan | (at least the quick'n'dirty "run just one autoqa instance for the whole batch of new stuff") | 16:30 |
| kparal | did I already mention we released 0.4.3 lately? well we did. and we updated documentation, too! :) | 16:30 |
| jlaska | kparal: jskladan: I was confused last week by the bodhi watcher changes ... but I think I understand it a little better now | 16:31 |
| kparal | mkrizek: jskladan: do you want to talk more in detail about your current tasks? | 16:31 |
| jlaska | it's 2 part right? Part#1) change the watch so it includes all updates since last fire, instead of running for *each* update | 16:31 |
| jlaska | part#2 - Change to monitor the koji -pending tag, instead of scrubbing bodhi? | 16:32 |
| wwoods | jskladan: I saw your email about depcheck not working as expected and sent a reply on the list - happy to talk through the problem further on IRC if need be | 16:32 |
| dgilmore | win 14 | 16:32 |
| jlaska | #info ticket#244 (fas.conf) now in master - http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=autoqa.git;a=commit;h=1b1d73030401a5859751b871043c15a2f8877064 | 16:32 |
| jlaska | #info mkrizek working on ticket#205, see mkrizek branch (http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=autoqa.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/mkrizek) | 16:32 |
| jskladan | wwoods: sure, let's catch up on that after the meeting | 16:32 |
| mkrizek | not at the moment, once the patch (#205) is done (which should be very soon since I only need to test it on server) I will post a description of the patch on the autoqa-devel | 16:33 |
| * kparal ran out of peanuts | 16:33 | |
| * jlaska overnights more peanuts | 16:33 | |
| kparal | ok, so that was a short summary on AutoQA front | 16:34 |
| jlaska | kparal: clumens is just about done with his anaconda_storage unittest integration. Can we get that on the roadmap for a future update? | 16:35 |
| kparal | jlaska: I noticed he had mentioned that on his blog, but I basically don't know anything about that | 16:35 |
| kparal | what does it do? | 16:36 |
| jlaska | kparal: Clumens, or I, will kick off discussion on autoqa-devel@ soon ... just wanted to give you a heads up | 16:36 |
| kparal | ok | 16:36 |
| kparal | we can surely add it to the roadmap once we know something more about it :) | 16:36 |
| jlaska | great, thanks! | 16:36 |
| jlaska | alright ... anything else to add on autoqa? | 16:37 |
| jlaska | wwoods: any additional depcheck work you're planning that isn't in the autoqa-0.4.4 milestone (https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&milestone=0.4.4)? | 16:37 |
| kparal | wwoods: I believe there are still a few pending questions about depcheck in autoqa-devel (but I haven't read through those last-hour emails yet) | 16:38 |
| wwoods | let's see | 16:39 |
| wwoods | https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/248 represents what I hope is the last major problem | 16:40 |
| wwoods | basically there's some complexities relating to when and how packages get tagged / accepted / karma'd | 16:40 |
| wwoods | I'm writing up a blog post explaining the details, hopefully for release later this week | 16:41 |
| jlaska | Nice ... those are always good posts | 16:41 |
| wwoods | in short: bad things could happen if the -pending set changes while we're testing | 16:41 |
| wwoods | there's two ways to prevent bad things from happening: either a) treat packages that pass an earlier test as "blessed" and pretend like they've already been pushed live | 16:42 |
| jlaska | #info wwoods working on ticket#248 - bad things happen if -pending set changes while test is running | 16:42 |
| wwoods | or b) retest all the pending packages and revoke the +1 karma / acceptance if the package fails due to an interaction with a newer package | 16:43 |
| wwoods | b) is much trickier, so we're doing a) | 16:43 |
| kparal | well, we don't plan to add karma for now. if the result changes, we post another comment with the new result | 16:43 |
| wwoods | AFAICT they're equivalent otherwise | 16:43 |
| wwoods | anyway this requires depcheck to be able to treat some of its inputs as if they were already live | 16:44 |
| wwoods | so I added code to do that, the week before the break | 16:44 |
| wwoods | we'll need to adapt the test wrapper accordingly (to use the --accepted flag) | 16:44 |
| wwoods | also jskladan seems to have uncovered a confusing problem that we're working on fixing or giving better diagnostic info about | 16:45 |
| wwoods | anyway, the blog post will explain more | 16:45 |
| jlaska | thanks for the extra info ... looking forward to the post | 16:46 |
| jlaska | I think we're ready for <open discussion> ... will change topic if no other autoqa discussion | 16:47 |
| wwoods | open that discussion! | 16:47 |
| * nirik would like to mention something... | 16:48 | |
| jlaska | nirik: autoqa-related, or other? | 16:48 |
| nirik | other | 16:48 |
| jlaska | okay ... | 16:48 |
| jlaska | #topic Open Discussion - <your topic here> | 16:48 |
| jlaska | nirik: take it away | 16:48 |
| nirik | ok, there was another long thread on the devel list recently about updates and updates process, etc. | 16:49 |
| nirik | I gathered up all the suggestions (good or bad) in a list. | 16:49 |
| nirik | for fesco to look at adjusting things. | 16:49 |
| nirik | It would be cool if we could get QA thoughts/input on the ideas... what ones are best worth considering. | 16:50 |
| nirik | should I just mail the list? do a ticket? or how best to gather that input? | 16:50 |
| adamw | mailing the list is fine, i think. | 16:50 |
| jlaska | howabout a link here ... and perhaps a follow-up on the list? | 16:50 |
| nirik | well, here's a paste of the list I have: http://fpaste.org/TYJ6/ | 16:51 |
| nirik | yeah, can mail the list... | 16:51 |
| jlaska | great thanks ... I'll be happy to add some thoughts there, as I'm sure others will | 16:52 |
| nirik | ok. Sounds great. | 16:52 |
| jlaska | #info nirik to send updates process ideas to test@ for feedback (preview at http://fpaste.org/TYJ6/) | 16:53 |
| jlaska | Any other discussion topics? | 16:53 |
| jlaska | alright, closing out the meeting in 1 minute | 16:54 |
| jlaska | alrighty ... 10 seconds ... | 16:55 |
| jlaska | thanks gang ... I'll send minutes to the list | 16:55 |
| jlaska | #endmeeting | 16:55 |
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