From Fedora Project Wiki
Attendees
- adamw (129)
- tflink (35)
- j_dulaney (34)
- kparal (23)
- kk4ewt (22)
- brunowolff (21)
- rdieter (13)
- zodbot (6)
- jskladan (5)
- pjones (3)
- jsmith (3)
- cra (2)
- rbergeron (2)
- fenrus02 (1)
- drago01 (1)
- Dr_Horrible (1)
- pschindl (1)
Agenda
Previous meeting follow-up
- Last meeting was mostly blocker review, so no follow-ups
Fedora 16 prep: blocker review
- Again, the meeting became a blocker review: details are in the log
Action Items
- N/A
IRC Log
| adamw | #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting | 15:03 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Mon Oct 31 15:03:10 2011 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:03 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 15:03 |
| adamw | #meetingname fedora-qa | 15:03 |
| zodbot | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' | 15:03 |
| adamw | #chair tflink | 15:03 |
| zodbot | Current chairs: adamw tflink | 15:03 |
| adamw | #chair kparal | 15:03 |
| zodbot | Current chairs: adamw kparal tflink | 15:03 |
| brunowolff | http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-October/104153.html repots a regression in an rc. | 15:03 |
| * j_dulaney is here | 15:03 | |
| brunowolff | s/repots/reports/ | 15:03 |
| * pschindl is here | 15:03 | |
| * kparal present | 15:03 | |
| brunowolff | Does look like it would be a blocker. | 15:03 |
| brunowolff | s/does/doesn't/ | 15:03 |
| adamw | it's from chuck, which means i don't care. | 15:04 |
| brunowolff | I can't type this morning. | 15:04 |
| adamw | the dude is programmed to provide utterly useless bug reports. | 15:04 |
| jskladan | me lurks | 15:04 |
| * tflink is still here | 15:04 | |
| adamw | #topic roll call | 15:05 |
| adamw | now do it all again, suckers! | 15:05 |
| * brunowolff is here | 15:05 | |
| * j_dulaney has his harmonica out and is blowing it | 15:05 | |
| * kparal does it again | 15:05 | |
| * jskladan can use the irc command now | 15:05 | |
| j_dulaney | After spending last night stroking my big wood instrument and polishing my flute | 15:05 |
| * tflink might be here, isn't sure if it changed in the last 2 minutes | 15:06 | |
| * adamw covers brunowolff's ears | 15:06 | |
| adamw | tflink: I CAN'T HEAR YOU | 15:06 |
| tflink | adamw: well, you don't need to shout | 15:07 |
| adamw | alright, let's get this dog and pony show on the road | 15:07 |
| adamw | heh | 15:07 |
| j_dulaney | It's only dirty if you have a dirty mind or don't know that I play standup bass | 15:08 |
| adamw | #topic Previous meeting follow-up | 15:08 |
| adamw | why are you here anyway? didn't I fire you?! | 15:08 |
| tflink | many times | 15:08 |
| j_dulaney | ??? | 15:08 |
| adamw | uh, hey, this is going to be a short section, as there appear to be no actions from the previous meeting | 15:08 |
| kparal | there were more people fired as I recall :) | 15:08 |
| j_dulaney | Red Hat sudenly laying off? | 15:09 |
| adamw | YOU'RE ALL FIRED | 15:09 |
| tflink | yeah, I think that jskladan was the last once to get fired | 15:09 |
| jskladan | oh yeah | 15:09 |
| j_dulaney | Yay, I can go home | 15:09 |
| jskladan | I did not work on state holiday | 15:09 |
| j_dulaney | Oh, wait | 15:09 |
| kparal | the more close to release date, the larger fire mood for adamw :) | 15:09 |
| tflink | j_dulaney: no, adamw just gets cranky and fires us | 15:09 |
| brunowolff | Was the quote "Good night tflink. Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning."? | 15:09 |
| adamw | you know what a holiday is? it's an opportunity for you to work undisturbed by others! | 15:09 |
| j_dulaney | LOL | 15:10 |
| tflink | brunowolff: huh? I missed that one | 15:10 |
| adamw | okay, so last meeting we mostly just reviewed blockers, and we're gonna have to do it again | 15:10 |
| * tflink looks through the logs | 15:10 | |
| adamw | #topic Fedora 16 prep: blocker review | 15:10 |
| adamw | tflink: it's a Princess Bride joke. | 15:10 |
| adamw | if you don't get it, you're fired. | 15:10 |
| jsmith | tflink: "Have fun storming the castle!" | 15:10 |
| adamw | also, you get to have a drink with me... | 15:10 |
| rbergeron | HOOORAY | 15:11 |
| brunowolff | Well I probably should have changed it to "Good night tflink. Sleep well. I'll most likely fire you in the morning." | 15:11 |
| kparal | is that a threat? | 15:11 |
| rbergeron | i promise i didn't just hop in because i saw the word drinks | 15:11 |
| adamw | rbergeron: no, you have an alert on the phrase 'princess bride'. admit it. | 15:11 |
| jsmith | rbergeron: You saw the word "princess"? | 15:11 |
| * jsmith ducks | 15:11 | |
| tflink | adamw: you should really add that to the job description @ hiring time. First Dr. Horrible and now Princess Bride? | 15:12 |
| * j_dulaney fingers his big wood instrument some more | 15:12 | |
| j_dulaney | Dr. Horrible is here? | 15:12 |
| brunowolff | I have a t-shirt with "I have a PhD in horribleness" on it. | 15:12 |
| Dr_Horrible | I will use my Freeze Ray on you all!!! | 15:13 |
| tflink | j_dulaney: no, adamw fired me for not having seen Dr. Horrible around beta | 15:13 |
| fenrus02 | Dr_Horrible, just dont talk about the hammer | 15:13 |
| adamw | all right, simmer down, children | 15:13 |
| adamw | #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=750228 | 15:13 |
| adamw | so, it seems like somehow efidisk.img sometimes gets broken in generation. i'm probably +1 blocker on this, and i assume we can just fix efidisk.img without screwing up anything else | 15:14 |
| j_dulaney | That seems right | 15:14 |
| * j_dulaney is also +1 blocker | 15:14 | |
| adamw | dgilmore: poke! | 15:14 |
| kk4ewt | +1 | 15:15 |
| adamw | criterion is "Where platform support exists, all dedicated installer images (except efidisk.img, which offers no options) must boot to the graphical boot menu and allow the user to select install options. If no option is selected, the installer should load after a reasonable timeout " from alpha | 15:16 |
| tflink | +1 | 15:16 |
| j_dulaney | Indeed | 15:16 |
| adamw | propose #accepted 750228 is a blocker per criterion ""Where platform support exists, all dedicated installer images (except efidisk.img, which offers no options) must boot to the graphical boot menu and allow the user to select install options. If no option is selected, the installer should load after a reasonable timeout " | 15:16 |
| kparal | +1 | 15:16 |
| j_dulaney | +1 | 15:17 |
| kk4ewt | so with that it cant be a blocker | 15:17 |
| tflink | ack | 15:17 |
| adamw | it can, though it's a bit poorly worded | 15:17 |
| adamw | efidisk.img isn't meant to be excepted from the entire criterion, just the requirement to display options | 15:17 |
| adamw | so for efidisk the requirement is 'boot to graphical boot menu and load installer after a reasonable timeout' | 15:18 |
| kk4ewt | +1 | 15:18 |
| adamw | #accepted 750228 is a blocker per criterion ""Where platform support exists, all dedicated installer images (except efidisk.img, which offers no options) must boot to the graphical boot menu and allow the user to select install options. If no option is selected, the installer should load after a reasonable timeout " | 15:18 |
| adamw | #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=748272 | 15:18 |
| tflink | #accepted? | 15:18 |
| kk4ewt | should be #agreed | 15:19 |
| adamw | guh | 15:20 |
| adamw | #undo | 15:20 |
| zodbot | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Accepted object at 0x4728bd0> | 15:20 |
| adamw | #agreed 750228 is a blocker per criterion ""Where platform support exists, all dedicated installer images (except efidisk.img, which offers no options) must boot to the graphical boot menu and allow the user to select install options. If no option is selected, the installer should load after a reasonable timeout " | 15:20 |
| adamw | #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=748272 | 15:20 |
| adamw | so, this is just a needsinfo , and people REALLY need to stop adding bugs to the blocker list so damn late... | 15:20 |
| adamw | cra: *shakes fist* | 15:21 |
| tflink | it almost sounds like this might have been with an older compose | 15:21 |
| j_dulaney | Indeed | 15:21 |
| j_dulaney | I'm not running into UEFI problems with RC2 | 15:21 |
| adamw | tflink: the initial report is from beta | 15:21 |
| adamw | he claims in comment #4 to still see teh bug with tc2 but provides no new logs | 15:22 |
| adamw | so i don't think we can do anything with this till we get some logs | 15:22 |
| tflink | yeah | 15:23 |
| pjones | it's entirely possible the bootloader isn't installing correctly due to a firmware bug. | 15:23 |
| pjones | that certainly has been something we've seen on some machines (though it's the first report I've seen on that one) | 15:23 |
| adamw | pjones: there's a claim that ubuntu 11.10 works | 15:24 |
| pjones | but yeah - we need logs to know what's going on with any degree of certainty. | 15:24 |
| adamw | k | 15:25 |
| cra | adamw: don't shoot the messenger :-) | 15:25 |
| adamw | cra: i will if he's late ;) | 15:25 |
| adamw | #agreed more information is needed to determine the status of 748272 | 15:25 |
| adamw | #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=651305 | 15:26 |
| adamw | so, wow, this is annoying. | 15:26 |
| rdieter | hi | 15:26 |
| adamw | rdieter: we're on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=651305 | 15:27 |
| tflink | yeah, I'm also -1 on this. it doesn't crash the app and doesn't happen on boot | 15:27 |
| adamw | what's your read on this? | 15:27 |
| adamw | tflink: er what? | 15:27 |
| adamw | tflink: this is the kde upgrade bug | 15:27 |
| rdieter | finally fully understand this one, can plug in some workaround(s) easy enough in a bit. | 15:27 |
| tflink | adamw: sorry, I was on a different one | 15:28 |
| rdieter | in short, upgrader's will hit a case where kdm is non-functional due to awol theme | 15:28 |
| rdieter | only affects DVD | 15:28 |
| adamw | is there any way you can fix / workaround it which does not involve us having to respin f16? | 15:28 |
| rdieter | (which is why I never saw it) | 15:28 |
| rdieter | adamw: the easiest fix I had in mind was a newer kde-settings pkg with a hard-coded dep | 15:29 |
| adamw | right, which needs a respin. | 15:29 |
| adamw | (and boy, are dgilmore's arms tired) | 15:29 |
| rdieter | adamw: another approach would be to jigger DVD creation to include a couple other pkgs | 15:29 |
| kk4ewt | +1 blocker | 15:29 |
| rdieter | ie, add kde themes from the last 1-2 fedora releases. | 15:30 |
| adamw | as far as respinning's concerned those are the same. | 15:30 |
| adamw | if we have to respin to fix it the kde-settings fix sounds like the safest. | 15:30 |
| rdieter | hmm... | 15:30 |
| j_dulaney | Yeah, I'll say +1 blocker on this, as well, since this does kill KDE and thus hits criteria | 15:30 |
| rdieter | adamw: what mods can we do that would avoid a respin? | 15:31 |
| j_dulaney | Curses | 15:31 |
| adamw | i was hoping you'd have something you could pull out of your ass. =) | 15:31 |
| rdieter | comps ? | 15:31 |
| adamw | some kind of fix to *f15* would avoid it | 15:31 |
| adamw | but that seems unpossible | 15:31 |
| rdieter | oh, ok, yeah, hard. sorry. | 15:31 |
| rdieter | I'll fixup kde-settings here in a bit | 15:31 |
| adamw | sigh. well, we can spin again to fix this, i guess, if the fix only touches kde that limits the scope of possible borkage, which is good. | 15:32 |
| kk4ewt | in short other than telling kde users with the DVD to enable updates there is not way to fix without res[in | 15:32 |
| adamw | yeah, seems that way. | 15:32 |
| adamw | i'm not sure you even get the repo choice on an upgrade. | 15:33 |
| kk4ewt | so borkage +1 respin | 15:33 |
| adamw | propose #agreed 651305 is accepted as a blocker per criterion "The installer must be able to successfully complete an upgrade installation from a clean, fully updated default installation (from any official install medium) of the previous stable Fedora release, either via preupgrade or by booting to the installer manually. The upgraded system must meet all release criteria." | 15:34 |
| adamw | anyone want to argue against? | 15:34 |
| adamw | kk4ewt: how come the nick change? | 15:34 |
| tflink | ack | 15:34 |
| j_dulaney | adamw: What happens if you use (CD, I know) a KDE CD to upgrade a Gnome system? | 15:34 |
| kparal | ack | 15:34 |
| kk4ewt | j_dulaney, still missing a dep | 15:34 |
| j_dulaney | Ok | 15:35 |
| j_dulaney | +1 | 15:35 |
| kk4ewt | livecds dont upgrade | 15:35 |
| adamw | er, what? | 15:35 |
| adamw | yeah | 15:35 |
| adamw | you can't do that | 15:35 |
| j_dulaney | That's right | 15:35 |
| * j_dulaney forgot | 15:35 | |
| adamw | this affects the case where you use the DVD to upgrade a system that uses KDM as the login manager, basically. | 15:35 |
| j_dulaney | Indeed | 15:36 |
| j_dulaney | Still, +1 blokcer | 15:36 |
| adamw | it doesn't quite meet the criterion | 15:36 |
| adamw | since the criterion refers to a 'default install', which this is not | 15:36 |
| adamw | but it does seem like something we really ought to fix | 15:36 |
| j_dulaney | Indeed | 15:36 |
| tflink | you mean since it's KDE instead of gnome? | 15:36 |
| adamw | yeah. to get that you had to change the package selection, hence, not default. | 15:37 |
| tflink | nvm | 15:37 |
| kk4ewt | default from any medium which covers it | 15:37 |
| adamw | that criterion is mostly just a hedge against 'you can't test every damn thing', though. | 15:37 |
| adamw | kk4ewt: oh, right, if you installed kde live then dvd upgrade you'd hit this.\ | 15:37 |
| kk4ewt | they have an full updated kde livecd install | 15:37 |
| adamw | #agreed 651305 is accepted as a blocker per criterion "The installer must be able to successfully complete an upgrade installation from a clean, fully updated default installation (from any official install medium) of the previous stable Fedora release, either via preupgrade or by booting to the installer manually. The upgraded system must meet all release criteria." | 15:37 |
| adamw | #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=748921 | 15:38 |
| tflink | now that I'm looking at the right bug, I'm also -1 on this | 15:38 |
| tflink | since it doesn't crash anything and doesn't happen on boot | 15:38 |
| adamw | yeah, doesn't meet either criterion | 15:39 |
| adamw | i'm not super keen on NTH for this either, as selinux-policy upgrades are big and can break anything | 15:39 |
| adamw | i think we just leave this one to get fixed by upgrades | 15:39 |
| tflink | yeah | 15:39 |
| j_dulaney | -1 for blocker | 15:40 |
| * j_dulaney doesn't see how it really affects usability, either, since SELinux complaints _can_ be ignored | 15:40 | |
| kk4ewt | -1 | 15:41 |
| kk4ewt | next | 15:41 |
| kparal | -1 blocker | 15:42 |
| adamw | propose #agreed 748921 is not a blocker, doesn't meet either the selinux or abrt criteria | 15:42 |
| tflink | ack | 15:42 |
| j_dulaney | ack | 15:42 |
| brunowolff | I have had the time/date applet crash a few times, but it seems to happen rarely when first signing on. I don't know if this is exactly the same bug. | 15:42 |
| kparal | ack | 15:42 |
| brunowolff | But since it is rare and the effect is small (you can remove and add the applet from the menu) I wouldn't think it would be a blocker. | 15:43 |
| adamw | #agreed 748921 is not a blocker, doesn't meet either the selinux or abrt criteria | 15:43 |
| brunowolff | In my case I am using fallback mode, which may make a difference. | 15:43 |
| adamw | alright, that's the lot, i think | 15:43 |
| adamw | does anyone with strong psychic powers know what the hell Chuck Forsberg's "Final Release Candidate Regression" mail is saying? | 15:44 |
| adamw | #topic Fedora 16 final prep: blocker review: any other blockers | 15:44 |
| * j_dulaney (as Dr. Horrible) doesn't | 15:44 | |
| brunowolff | Didn't he have some post about 3TB disk drive partitions a few weeks ago? | 15:44 |
| kparal | I have one bug to discuss | 15:44 |
| j_dulaney | brunowolff: I think so | 15:45 |
| drago01 | adamw: parse error | 15:45 |
| tflink | it sounds like it's an issue with partitioning but I'm not sure that there's enough info to figure out whether its pilot error or not | 15:45 |
| cra | sounds like reusing a BIOS BOOT partition fails | 15:45 |
| kk4ewt | adamw, so i think we may have only on blocker which may be the kde stuff | 15:45 |
| brunowolff | It was annoying that the spin kickstarts needed a few changes. Unless someone thinks it is critical to have the actual kickstarts on the media, I'll just do this as an update. | 15:46 |
| adamw | cra: well, we can confirm/deny that easy enough | 15:46 |
| tflink | I just reused a BIOS boot partition about 5 minutes ago so if there is a failure there, it's not with all machines | 15:46 |
| adamw | brunowolff: i'm not sure if there's any legal implications to that? | 15:46 |
| adamw | tflink: ah. good. in that case i'm all for ignoring chuck | 15:46 |
| * adamw projects the Spot Beam | 15:46 | |
| adamw | spot: legal q! | 15:46 |
| brunowolff | Jesse used to care about this, but I didn't understand the full reason. He would be a good person to check with. | 15:47 |
| brunowolff | It's not like the source won't be available somewhere, as the source tar ball will be on fedorahosted as well as the srpm being in updates. | 15:48 |
| adamw | yeah. we'd best check with him before doing rc3 spin. okay | 15:48 |
| adamw | kparal: which bug did you want to discuss? the text upgrade one? | 15:48 |
| kparal | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=742207 | 15:49 |
| brunowolff | If you get an answer from him, I'd like to hear it so I can write it down on the spins wiki. | 15:49 |
| adamw | k | 15:49 |
| adamw | #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=742207 | 15:49 |
| adamw | so i did know about this one at beta | 15:49 |
| adamw | and i'm still pretty much -1 blocker on it. though i was hoping anaconda team would fix it, i admit. | 15:50 |
| adamw | kparal: yes, we knew about the weird 'it'll proceed if you select nothing' case too | 15:50 |
| kparal | basically if you don't select the option properly, it will destroy your data without you wanting to | 15:50 |
| adamw | destroy data is a rather strong way to describe 'mess up bootloader config' | 15:50 |
| kparal | ok, overwrite bootloader | 15:51 |
| adamw | when we talk about destroying data we're usually talking about actual, you know, User Stuff | 15:51 |
| kparal | ok, destroy bootloader | 15:51 |
| kparal | to put it into correct words | 15:51 |
| kparal | I just wanted to highlight that issue | 15:51 |
| kparal | I am not also sure whether to vote it as a blocker | 15:51 |
| adamw | yeah, i mean, it sucks, but...text mode upgrade. ehhhh. | 15:53 |
| adamw | we don't really have criteria for it. | 15:53 |
| brunowolff | I think it is not a blocker. It is rare to do text upgrades and based on the description requires user error (even if easy to do) to cause an issue. | 15:53 |
| kparal | actually it's extremely easy to do | 15:53 |
| kparal | I made the error | 15:53 |
| brunowolff | Given it's anaconda and we have no time left, I wouldn't make it NTH either. | 15:53 |
| kparal | I had upgraded countless times | 15:53 |
| adamw | any other votes? | 15:54 |
| tflink | I think that I'm of pretty much the same mind brunowolff is, if it was earlier ... maybe | 15:54 |
| kk4ewt | -1 | 15:54 |
| brunowolff | We could document how to recover from it for the few people who might run into it. | 15:54 |
| tflink | yeah, definitely document the bug | 15:54 |
| kk4ewt | +1 brunowolff | 15:55 |
| kk4ewt | doc in common bugs | 15:55 |
| adamw | propose #agreed 742207 is not a blocker: text mode upgrade isn't really covered by criteria and the likely impact of this is too small to really worry about | 15:55 |
| adamw | s/small/narrow/ | 15:55 |
| j_dulaney | ack | 15:55 |
| brunowolff | +1 | 15:55 |
| kk4ewt | +1 | 15:56 |
| tflink | adamw: have you looked at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=750216 ? | 15:56 |
| tflink | since you've been working with preupgrade more than most of us have? | 15:56 |
| adamw | #agreed 742207 is not a blocker: text mode upgrade isn't really covered by criteria and the likely impact of this is too narrow to really worry about | 15:57 |
| adamw | tflink: not yet | 15:57 |
| tflink | it might be blocker material if there is no pilot error | 15:57 |
| tflink | but it sounds like the preupgrade issue that we've had for a while | 15:57 |
| adamw | it sounds incoherent to me | 15:58 |
| tflink | and if the fix required something from F15 updates-testing, I'm wondering if it just needs retesting | 15:58 |
| adamw | the reproduction steps are clearly incomplete | 15:58 |
| adamw | there's no really useful logs there | 15:58 |
| tflink | took me a while to figure out what he was talking about and I'm still not sure | 15:58 |
| * j_dulaney must go AFK for a few minutes,. will return | 15:59 | |
| kk4ewt | should be tested but not a blocker as its reported at the moment | 16:00 |
| adamw | yeah, i think we just need to keep getting info from hongqing on that one. | 16:00 |
| kk4ewt | and the preupgrade was pointed at Alpha Beta or what | 16:00 |
| adamw | i've tested preupgrade and it works, couple of other people have reported it working too, the actual .ks written there looks correct, so i'm not hugely concerned | 16:01 |
| adamw | okay, so we're over time | 16:01 |
| adamw | let's skip along quickly | 16:01 |
| adamw | #topic proventester / autoqa updates | 16:01 |
| adamw | anything on the autoqa front, kparal or tflink? or has it been all f16 stuff? | 16:01 |
| tflink | mostly f16 stuff and trying to get ready to test the next release of autoqa | 16:02 |
| kparal | nothing big from me | 16:02 |
| adamw | k | 16:03 |
| adamw | #topic upcoming qa events | 16:03 |
| adamw | there ain't any, aside from getting f16 done :) | 16:03 |
| adamw | #topic open discussion | 16:03 |
| adamw | anything else? might be stuff i've been missing with the focus on f16, don't be shy | 16:03 |
| kk4ewt | how does one point preupgrade to the latest spin | 16:05 |
| adamw | kk4ewt: it uses the repos, it doesn't know about spins. | 16:05 |
| kk4ewt | so how would one test with preupgrade and pull from the rc2 tree | 16:06 |
| adamw | one doesn't, really. but one should get the latest packages pushed to stable, which is good enough. | 16:07 |
| * adamw sets fuse for 2 mins | 16:07 | |
| kparal | this time we have chairs :) | 16:07 |
| adamw | *shakes fist* | 16:08 |
| adamw | you little... | 16:08 |
| kparal | I was wondering if you get it | 16:08 |
| * jskladan *misfire* | 16:08 | |
| adamw | does anyone actually know where dgilmore is today? | 16:09 |
| adamw | #endmeeting | 16:09 |
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