QA/Meetings/20120227

Attendees

• adamw (87)
• j_dulaney (47)
• kparal (19)
• tflink (18)
• jskladan (14)
• rbergeron (14)
• brunowolff (12)
• zodbot (11)
• nirik (6)
• nb (3)
• irejaul (3)
• dgilmore (3)
• aeperezt (1)
• mkrizek (1)
• Southern_Gentlem (1)
• pschindl (1)

Agenda

• Fedora 17 Alpha wrap-up and Beta prep
• Upcoming QA events
• AutoQA update
• Open floor

Fedora 17 Alpha wrap-up and Beta prep

• Common bugs for Alpha needs writing
• livecd-tools update required to fix known bugs writing F17 images
• re-opening of F17 repos is waiting on EC2 image compose
• clear confusion over what images must be delivered when, we need to re-open Deliverables SOP idea

Upcoming QA events

• First Test Day coming up in two weeks on 03-07

AutoQA update

• rats_install output has been improved

Action items

• adamw to start common bugs page
• adamw to poke bcl about livecd-tools updates for fixing bugs writing f17
• brunowolff to ping release engineering about post-freeze update re-opening for f17
• adamw to dig out the 'deliverables' ticket / action item and get it moving again

IRC Log

adamw	#startmeeting Fedora QA meeting	15:59
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Feb 27 15:59:58 2012 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:59
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	15:59
adamw	#meetingname fedora-qa	16:00
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	16:00
adamw	#topic roll call	16:00
adamw	call your rolls, people!	16:00
* nirik is lurking.		16:00
* kparal rolls		16:00
* pschindl is here		16:00
* mkrizek here		16:00
tflink	ooh, what rolls can we choose from?	16:00
* adamw calls his roll bob		16:01
adamw	before I eat it.	16:01
* jskladan wantz a roll with goat cheese and beef ham		16:01
tflink	jskladan: beef ham? Isn't that an oxymoron?	16:01
adamw	unless...it's a beefy miracle	16:01
tflink	it all makes sense now ...	16:02
* brunowolff is lurking for the first 1/2 hour, then I have a work meeting.		16:02
* Southern_Gentlem sitting in my rocking chair with rollers (so i can rock and roll)		16:02
adamw	hey everyone, let's keep talking nonsense about rolls for the first half hour	16:02
tflink	so we can have an even longer meeting?	16:02
adamw	and so bruno misses it	16:03
jskladan	tflink: http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/215780949/Smoked_Beef_Ham.html	16:03
brunowolff	Thta's better than being fired.	16:03
adamw	with a name like Delicious Food Industries, how can you go wrong.	16:03
jskladan	hehe	16:03
brunowolff	From both work and QA.	16:04
tflink	jskladan: huh, you learn something new every day	16:04
adamw	at last! the meeting is useful!	16:04
adamw	#chair jskladan	16:04
zodbot	Current chairs: adamw jskladan	16:04
adamw	.fire adamw	16:04
zodbot	adamw fires adamw	16:04
adamw	i'm outta here	16:04
jskladan	ok, I call anarchy time!	16:05
adamw	:P	16:05
jskladan	#topic previous meeting follow up	16:05
adamw	aaaaaaand you fell right into the bear trap	16:05
adamw	THERE IS NO PREVIOUS MEETING FOLLOW-UP	16:06
jskladan	#info adamw is in denial about previous meeting!	16:06
jskladan	moving on then :)	16:06
adamw	heheh	16:06
adamw	we had no action items from last week	16:06
adamw	so i just left it out	16:06
jskladan	#topic Fedora 17 Alpha wrap-up and Beta prep	16:07
jskladan	IIRC F17 was declared gold on Feb 22	16:07
adamw	soo, we signed off on alpha. i was probably drunk or something.	16:07
adamw	also, my birthday	16:07
kparal	that explains being drunk	16:08
tflink	we signed off on your birthday?	16:08
adamw	i think so?	16:08
kparal	you're not sure?	16:08
tflink	someone is spending a bit too much time with processes	16:08
adamw	we definitely need to get common bugs done, cos this thing is riddled with them	16:08
j_dulaney	Sorry I'm late	16:08
j_dulaney	class ran over	16:08
jskladan	#chair j_dulaney	16:08
zodbot	Current chairs: adamw j_dulaney jskladan	16:08
j_dulaney	What did I miss wrap-up wise?	16:09
adamw	nothing	16:09
adamw	so yeah, since we have that kernel slowdown bug, and sound not working, and the installer blowing up if you have any other distro installed...	16:09
tflink	rolls	16:09
adamw	i'll start off the common bugs page today, if anyone else wants to throw in some contributions that'd be great.	16:10
brunowolff	Sound works at least sometimes as I am listening to music on F17 right now.	16:10
j_dulaney	Sound not working = why I have not upgraded bare metal to F17 yet	16:10
* j_dulaney needs his Bach		16:10
adamw	j_dulaney: it's incredibly easy to work around, you just cut a bit out of pulseaudio's config or install consolekit.	16:11
adamw	but explaining that is of course why we need the common bugs page...	16:11
adamw	we also need to make sure a livecd-tools update gets karma'ed and pushed for f16 and f15 asap	16:11
adamw	i'll poke bcl about that today	16:11
adamw	#action adamw to start common bugs page	16:12
j_dulaney	adamw: Why does pulse still want consolekit in it's config?	16:12
adamw	#action adamw to poke bcl about livecd-tools updates for fixing bugs writing f17	16:12
brunowolff	I haven't seen the flood from updates-testing to f17 after goldness. Does releng need to get reminded it's OK for stable updates?	16:12
adamw	j_dulaney: because no-one thought to take it out of there, and then when we did, we found PA doesn't compile any more, so we coldn't fix it quickly.	16:12
adamw	brunowolff: probably, good point	16:12
j_dulaney	Huh	16:12
adamw	#action brunowolff to ping release engineering about post-freeze update re-opening for f17	16:13
nirik	brunowolff: I was waiting until dgilmore finished testing the ec2 image	16:13
j_dulaney	Isn't sound a final criteria?	16:13
nirik	if thats done we can start anytime.	16:13
adamw	fastest. action item. ever.	16:13
adamw	j_dulaney: no, it's a beta one.	16:13
brunowolff	OK.	16:13
adamw	j_dulaney: happily, we just released alpha, so no problem. :P	16:13
j_dulaney	Indeed	16:13
dgilmore	ec2 still doesnt boot	16:14
dgilmore	brunowolff: maybe we will get updates in the next couple of days	16:14
dgilmore	or we will get updates and no ec2 images for alpha	16:14
brunowolff	Do ec2 images need to be part of the goldness process?	16:15
adamw	we didn't write that SOP yet, so we don't have a good answer.	16:15
adamw	there's a 'deliverables' action item zinging around between qa and releng but it hasn't ever got much traction.	16:15
j_dulaney	dgilmore: Where are ec2 images dumped?	16:16
brunowolff	Otherwise when you push stuff from testing to stable it goes into a black hole.	16:16
adamw	#info updates pushes are still not happening because we don't have an ec2 image yet	16:17
brunowolff	One possible future state would be to use the empty updates repository to hold stuff on its way from testing to stable.	16:18
rbergeron	all updates??	16:19
adamw	f17 updates.	16:19
rbergeron	how do those two depend on each other (sorry, i'm less than brainy here)	16:19
brunowolff	This would also handle dealing with stable not being rebuilt at the same times as the testing repo.	16:19
adamw	rbergeron: if we started updates flowing again, what would dgilmore compose the ec2 images from?	16:19
rbergeron	THIN AIR	16:19
rbergeron	point taken	16:20
tflink	that sounds a little hacky and aren't pre-releases configured to use updates, even though its empty?	16:20
j_dulaney	brunowolff: How difficult would that be to impliment?	16:20
brunowolff	I am not sure.	16:20
adamw	tflink: that would be my concern - it's something we could change, but it involves several moving parts.	16:20
rbergeron	what's the cutoff point for when we just say "sorry charlie" ?	16:20
adamw	and has consequences up to release time, with the repo configuration question	16:20
adamw	rbergeron: that depends on how you feel about charlie.	16:20
j_dulaney	Poor Charlie	16:20
tflink	he's gone off to the cloud ...	16:21
tflink	on to a "better" place :)	16:21
j_dulaney	We also have to worry about PXE	16:21
j_dulaney	Or is it finally booitng?	16:21
tflink	j_dulaney: for beta, no?	16:21
j_dulaney	tflink: I think we skipped it for Alpha	16:22
j_dulaney	Well, not skipped, per se	16:22
j_dulaney	But, didn't require it to boot for Alpha	16:22
jskladan	j_dulaney: it is booting, if you provide correct 'extra parameters', which is something i don't really like, but bcl tries to convince me that it's actually OK https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=787744	16:22
adamw	right, it's not broken. we can document that.	16:23
j_dulaney	Okay	16:23
j_dulaney	Still, a NTH to fix that would be great	16:24
rbergeron	i don't feel that strongly about charlie. charlie would be nice to have though. /me sighs	16:24
adamw	i think it already is fixed, just didn't make alpha.	16:24
j_dulaney	adamw: PXE?	16:25
adamw	rbergeron: seriously, i dunno the answer to that. isn't it more, er, your department? with either your current hat or your previous one? :)	16:25
adamw	j_dulaney: the need for a kernel= parameter in certain boot types in general	16:25
adamw	i remember seeing some chat in #anaconda to the effect that it's fixed	16:25
j_dulaney	adamw: Ah	16:26
rbergeron	ec2 shouldn't be a blocker. not when we don't have criteria, or testing beforehand	16:27
j_dulaney	+1	16:27
rbergeron	that said: since we aren't discovering this until the time when we need to post it, we should maybe start considering actually doing a test-compose-to-upload-to-ec2 in the future	16:27
rbergeron	so that if that process is broken we don't find out ... in this meeting the day before release	16:27
adamw	rbergeron: i don't see it as something which should have a criterion - we don't have a 'criterion' that the live image should work, a 'criterion' that the dvd image should work, etc	16:28
brunowolff	Time to get fired from QA so I don't get fired from my paying job. See you next week.	16:28
adamw	the deliverables aren't specified in the criteria, we should have probably a releng sop for them	16:28
adamw	the criteria specify the functions that should work across all supported deliverables. but eh, i'm disappearing up my own process ass here, we can figure it out in post.	16:28
adamw	.fire brunowolff	16:28
zodbot	adamw fires brunowolff	16:28
j_dulaney	.fire brunowolff	16:29
zodbot	adamw fires brunowolff	16:29
aeperezt	sorry late but here john	16:29
rbergeron	there is criteria that things should boot - but do we block if, say, xfce doesn't boot, but gnome does?	16:29
j_dulaney	LOL	16:29
nirik	not currently.	16:29
nirik	gnome and kde are the blocking desktops	16:29
rbergeron	(i think, talking out my ass while i'm on the phone in a meeting)	16:29
j_dulaney	multitasking much?	16:30
adamw	rbergeron: the criteria use the phrase 'supported desktops', and there's a little bit in the preamble which states what those currently are by policy.	16:30
nb	FWIW why should kde get special status over XFCE?	16:30
adamw	(which is KDE and GNOME)	16:30
rbergeron	right. so we could block final if ec2 doesn't boot, but ... not alpha? /me is just brainstorming, but i think we just need a decision here and i i think it's just "sorry charlie, no alpha"	16:30
nb	me can see gnome, since it is default, butn ot kde	16:30
rbergeron	nb: would you like to hold pandora's box so you can peer into it as deeply as possible?	16:31
adamw	nb: it always has and so it continues to. it just is considered to be supported while the others aren't. that can always change, but the decision wouldn't come from us.	16:31
j_dulaney	nb: Do we block on Fluxbox?	16:31
nirik	nb: historical reasons.	16:31
j_dulaney	nb: If you want to change that, poke the Board	16:31
nb	ok	16:31
rbergeron	dgilmore: can we not back out changes to last known working appliance-tools, rebuild it, and try that?	16:32
adamw	anyway, it seems like the takeaway here is clearly that we're lacking policy/process for deliverables: what they are, and how hard we try to deliver the ones that aren't required at any point, when we stop trying, etc	16:33
adamw	so we need to renew that ticket, wherever it is, and get that done	16:33
adamw	#action adamw to dig out the 'deliverables' ticket / action item and get it moving again	16:34
j_dulaney	How much of that is FeSCO, how much releng, and how much us?	16:34
adamw	hand wavey!	16:34
adamw	i think it's one of those things where it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission.	16:34
j_dulaney	Does that mean I can wave my hands and make it go awaY?	16:34
adamw	if only.	16:35
adamw	i think we'd best move on and keep discussing this elsewhere, it's getting a bit freeform	16:35
adamw	#topic Upcoming QA events	16:35
adamw	we get back into blocker reviews this week, so everyone set aside your friday...	16:36
j_dulaney	Yay ...	16:36
tflink	wheee!	16:37
j_dulaney	What is todays date?	16:37
adamw	we also have 'Pre-Beta Acceptance Test Plan' on the schedule for two days from now, which seems a) early and b) redundant since rats is now firing daily	16:37
adamw	02-27	16:37
j_dulaney	First test day is a week from Thursday	16:37
adamw	yup, indeed	16:38
j_dulaney	In fact	16:38
adamw	okay, so it seems like when we got the schedule modified to bump TC1 earlier, 'acceptance test plan' got moved a week earlier instead of being removed	16:38
adamw	rbergeron: the idea was to drop the 'acceptance test plan' points entirely (replace them with TCs), not bump them a week forward	16:38
j_dulaney	#info First test day is a week from Thursday; it is 03/07	16:38
adamw	alrighty, so yeah, blocker review this friday, first TC next week, first test day also next week.	16:40
adamw	i think that's all	16:41
adamw	#topic AutoQA update	16:41
adamw	#chair tflink	16:41
zodbot	Current chairs: adamw j_dulaney jskladan tflink	16:41
adamw	#chair kparal	16:41
zodbot	Current chairs: adamw j_dulaney jskladan kparal tflink	16:41
kparal	I have some small update	16:41
adamw	take it away, folks. just remember to bring it back before the due date	16:41
kparal	first of all I'd like to remind everyone that we're now testing anaconda installation automatically every day	16:41
kparal	link is here: http://autoqa-stg.fedoraproject.org/resultsdb/frontend/search?type=Testcase&terms=rats_install	16:42
kparal	there were some complaints about log messages, so I tried to improve that	16:42
kparal	at the end of the result log you can now see last 10 lines parsed from serial console output: http://autoqa-stg.fedoraproject.org/results/27117-autotest/qa06.qa.fedoraproject.org/rats_install/results/f17-i386.html	16:42
kparal	and someone asked last time whether we can add 'newlines' to the following log: http://autoqa-stg.fedoraproject.org/results/27117-autotest/qa06.qa.fedoraproject.org/rats_install/results/stage2.log	16:43
j_dulaney	Might be a useful feature, that	16:43
adamw	yeah, that'd be good.	16:43
irejaul	hi	16:43
kparal	in short: we can't, because newt is drawing on serial console using escape characters	16:43
kparal	so at least I filtered it using 'strings' command: http://autoqa-stg.fedoraproject.org/results/27117-autotest/qa06.qa.fedoraproject.org/rats_install/results/stage2.log_filtered	16:44
kparal	so now we should be able to debug potential problems quicker	16:44
irejaul	I m Rejaul, Fedora Ambassador Bangldesh	16:45
kparal	#info rats_install output has been improved	16:45
kparal	that's all I have for today	16:45
irejaul	i want to become a mentor of APAC Bangldesh	16:45
j_dulaney	kparal: BTW, I was the one asking for newlines	16:46
adamw	irejaul: can you please ask in the correct channel? we're in the middle of a QA meeting...sorry	16:46
tflink	irejaul: I think you might have the wrong channel or time	16:46
j_dulaney	kparal: Much more readable	16:46
j_dulaney	kparal: Thanks	16:46
adamw	tflink: anything to add for autoqa?	16:49
tflink	adamw: nope	16:49
j_dulaney	kparal:	16:50
kparal	adamw: nope, that's all	16:50
j_dulaney	Instead of replacing the author name in tests, just add a maintainer line	16:50
adamw	okely dokely	16:50
adamw	#topic open floor	16:50
j_dulaney	Have both author and maintainer	16:50
adamw	i hope everyone enjoyed this exciting and enthralling meeting	16:50
adamw	now you can make it even better with your pearls of wisdom!	16:51
j_dulaney	adamw: We have wisdom?	16:51
* j_dulaney did not know of this		16:51
kparal	j_dulaney: the author credits are still available in all the source files	16:52
j_dulaney	kparal: True	16:52
tflink	kparal: where is the contact info used, anyways?	16:52
kparal	nowhere. it's for our needs only	16:53
kparal	let's discuss in #fedora-qa	16:53
tflink	works for me	16:54
j_dulaney	.fire himself	16:54
zodbot	adamw fires himself	16:54
kparal	:)	16:55
tflink	hrm, he seems to have disappeared	16:55
adamw	holiday!	16:55
* j_dulaney wants to go back to the house, stir up the fire place (which has been going for two days now), sit in front of it and watch anime		16:57
j_dulaney	Alas, I've class this afternoon	16:58
jskladan	j_dulaney: come on, you have fireplace, and you're going to watch dragon ball? :)	16:58
jskladan	ok, I'll do what I wanted to do for a long time now :))	16:59
jskladan	#endmeeting	16:59

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