From Fedora Project Wiki
Attendees
- tflink (87)
- kparal (84)
- Viking-Ice (34)
- jreznik (26)
- dan408_ (17)
- zodbot (8)
- mkrizek (7)
- nirik (5)
- herlo (4)
- dlehman (4)
- pschindl1 (4)
- brunowolff (3)
- Guest85807 (3)
- jskladan (1)
- jreznik_n9 (1)
- akshayvyas (1)
- satellit (1)
Agenda
- Previous meeting follow-up
- Fedora 18 Beta status / mini blocker review
- Open floor
Previous meeting follow-up
- adamw to finally finish drafting revised partitioning criteria - was not yet done
- adamw to push security criterion into 'production' after waiting a few more days for feedback - this was done
Fedora 18 Beta status / mini blocker review
- Beta had been unfrozen until at least 2012-11-13
- fedup status was still unknown
Mini blocker review
- #872833 was accepted as a blocker per partitioning criteria
- #873762 was accepted as a blocker per install completion criterion for Chinese
- #875003 was rejected as a blocker due to not being severe enough
Open floor
N/A
IRC Log
| kparal | #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Mon Nov 12 16:00:32 2012 UTC. The chair is kparal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 16:00 |
| kparal | #meetingname fedora-qa | 16:00 |
| kparal | #meetingname fedora-qa | 16:00 |
| zodbot | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' | 16:00 |
| kparal | #chair tflink | 16:00 |
| zodbot | Current chairs: kparal tflink | 16:00 |
| kparal | #topic roll call | 16:00 |
| * tflink is here | 16:00 | |
| kparal | hands up! | 16:01 |
| * mkrizek is here | 16:01 | |
| kparal | adamw has a vacation day, he's excused | 16:01 |
| * jskladan lurks | 16:01 | |
| * akshayvyas is here | 16:01 | |
| Viking-Ice | here | 16:02 |
| * jreznik_n9 is semi ready | 16:02 | |
| * nirik is lurking | 16:02 | |
| kparal | pschindl: don't quit on us! | 16:02 |
| * pschindl1 is here | 16:03 | |
| * satellit listening | 16:03 | |
| * tflink wonders if pschindl was cloned suddenly | 16:03 | |
| dan408_ | here | 16:03 |
| tflink | :-D | 16:03 |
| dan408_ | 25% here | 16:03 |
| dan408_ | building packages | 16:03 |
| Viking-Ice | jreznik_n9, is that clone number 9 ? | 16:04 |
| kparal | welcome everyone. let's start | 16:04 |
| dan408_ | where is adamw? | 16:04 |
| * tflink assumes that it is his phone | 16:04 | |
| kparal | dan408_: vacation day in Canada | 16:04 |
| dan408_ | ah veteran's day | 16:04 |
| dan408_ | k | 16:04 |
| kparal | #topic Previous meeting follow-up | 16:04 |
| tflink | dan408_: armistice day in canada, as far as I know | 16:04 |
| dan408_ | same thing | 16:04 |
| kparal | #info adamw to finally finish drafting revised partitioning criteria | 16:04 |
| dan408_ | different name | 16:05 |
| tflink | I don't believe this has been done | 16:05 |
| dan408_ | nope | 16:05 |
| tflink | lack of available time | 16:05 |
| kparal | he's so lazy, let's fire him | 16:05 |
| kparal | .fire adamw | 16:05 |
| zodbot | adamw fires adamw | 16:05 |
| dan408_ | no lets hire dan408 fulltime | 16:05 |
| dan408_ | he'll file everything as blocker bugs | 16:05 |
| kparal | ok, another one | 16:06 |
| kparal | #info adamw to push security criterion into 'production' after waiting a few more days for feedback | 16:06 |
| kparal | this was done | 16:06 |
| tflink | as far as I know, this is done | 16:06 |
| kparal | #info adamw to push security criterion into 'production' after waiting a few more days for feedback -- done | 16:06 |
| kparal | ok, that's the previous week | 16:06 |
| kparal | #topic Fedora 18 Beta status / mini blocker review | 16:07 |
| kparal | so, first of all, Beta has been unfrozen | 16:07 |
| kparal | the next Beta Change Deadline seems to be 2012-11-13 | 16:08 |
| dan408_ | thank god | 16:08 |
| kparal | which is tomorrow | 16:08 |
| dan408_ | please push that back | 16:08 |
| kparal | I thought it was unfrozen for two weeks? | 16:08 |
| kparal | jreznik might know more | 16:08 |
| kparal | anyway, we're not frozen at the moment | 16:08 |
| Viking-Ice | hm I thought so also | 16:08 |
| jreznik | kparal: fesco agreed to freeze tentative tmrw | 16:08 |
| kparal | jreznik: so tomorrow you will decide whether to continue unfrozen or not? | 16:09 |
| jreznik | slip for two weeks | 16:09 |
| jreznik | kparal: in case of no objections, freeze is tmrw | 16:09 |
| tflink | jreznik: so we need to voice concerns about re-freezing today, if we have any? | 16:09 |
| jreznik | tflink: yep | 16:09 |
| tflink | bah, I thought we had another week | 16:09 |
| kparal | #info Beta was unfrozen, on 2012-11-13 there will be another Beta freeze if there are no objections | 16:09 |
| tflink | jreznik: do you know of a fesco ticket off hand? | 16:10 |
| jreznik | tflink: no, that was more - compromise - unfreeze for week but slip two weeks | 16:10 |
| nirik | theres not one, feel free to file a new one... but please be specific. | 16:10 |
| jreznik | tflink: file a ticket in case you think it's needed | 16:10 |
| jreznik | I' | 16:10 |
| Viking-Ice | was not a week to short time | 16:10 |
| Viking-Ice | <sigh> | 16:10 |
| * tflink is still concerned about fedup | 16:10 | |
| * Viking-Ice to | 16:11 | |
| jreznik | the only concern now is fedup and it's really hard to get any updates :((( | 16:11 |
| Guest85807 | There was already updates backed up, so it was more than a week's worth of updates. | 16:11 |
| * jreznik is writing another mail to david as did not receive any input from will | 16:11 | |
| tflink | jreznik: yeah, I'm planning to poke for status on a few bugs today | 16:11 |
| Viking-Ice | I would not be surprised if will took this as an two week unfreeze like the rest of us | 16:11 |
| jreznik | tflink: I'm trying too, got some response | 16:12 |
| Guest85807 | Since fedup is blocking things, I think updates will get through. | 16:12 |
| tflink | Viking-Ice: there's plenty to be done, I doubt that anyone is sitting around for the week or two | 16:12 |
| tflink | Guest85807: I think that jreznik was talking about status updates from the fedup devel(s) | 16:12 |
| Viking-Ice | yup | 16:12 |
| jreznik | the thing is more when is the last time to file the ticket so fesco could vote, nirik? | 16:13 |
| jreznik | and I'll nag to get more input from fedup side :( | 16:14 |
| nirik | jreznik: tomorrow morning sometime I guess? | 16:14 |
| * jreznik is really fed up from fedup communication | 16:14 | |
| * kparal notes it is a great project name | 16:14 | |
| kparal | #info fedup status is still largely unknown | 16:15 |
| jreznik | well, I'll try to get an update and in case there would be no way how to get fedup ready, I'll file the ticket to not freeze | 16:15 |
| kparal | ok, thanks jreznik. anything else to the topic, or should we move to the mini-blocker review? | 16:16 |
| jreznik | just the question is - what's the criteria we consider fedup not a problem... | 16:17 |
| tflink | jreznik: you mean how done does fedup need to be before it doesn't block release from a QA perspective? | 16:18 |
| kparal | jreznik: the criteria says: For each one of the release-blocking package sets ('minimal', and the package sets for each one of the release-blocking desktops), it must be possible to successfully complete an upgrade from a fully updated installation of the previous stable Fedora release with that package set installed, using any officially recommended upgrade mechanisms. The upgraded system must meet all release criteria. | 16:18 |
| * nirik notes that freeze also doesn't mean there are no blockers. | 16:18 | |
| tflink | the cli would need to work for F17 -> F18 upgrades in most situations, the initramfs used would need to be created by releng (less of a QA issue, though) | 16:19 |
| jreznik | nirik: yep, definitely but we froze mostly because of fedup - if there's no change in fedup state... | 16:19 |
| dan408_ | sorry wasn't paying attention | 16:19 |
| jreznik | but still I'd prefer to continue with Beta | 16:19 |
| dan408_ | are we pushing back the change deadline? | 16:19 |
| tflink | AFAIK, releng won't take much of anything outside the initramfs being built in lorax. This will require a change to that code which I don't believe has been done | 16:20 |
| jreznik | email written | 16:20 |
| kparal | when I think about it, I think it should be sufficient to at least one of GUI/CLI method to work for Beta. but that would have to be discussed properly | 16:20 |
| jreznik | tflink: I asked dgilmore last week and wwoods have not talk to him yet... | 16:20 |
| tflink | kparal: GUI isn't going to be done for beta | 16:21 |
| kparal | tflink: ah, ok | 16:21 |
| jreznik | tflink: and then we have that blocker bug, our systemd guys do not know the part, I sent an email to lennart, but I don't see him online to ping... | 16:21 |
| dan408_ | change deadline? anyone? | 16:21 |
| Viking-Ice | fedup with and or cli/gui | 16:21 |
| nirik | dan408_: nothing is changing right now. | 16:21 |
| dan408_ | k | 16:21 |
| kparal | jreznik: he has some weird irc nick, mezcalero or similar | 16:22 |
| jreznik | kparal: I know | 16:22 |
| tflink | jreznik: yeah, I was going to ask if anything was needed in the major blocker bug | 16:22 |
| jreznik | so we need this bug sorted out + releng stuff should not be difficult, we just need wwoods be working with relengs... otherwise the blocker situation is not bad | 16:23 |
| tflink | BTW, if you decide to test fedup, please read the testing wiki page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA%3AFedora_18_Upgrade_Testing | 16:23 |
| jreznik | (even looking on proposed ones) | 16:23 |
| tflink | knowing that it isn't going to work right now | 16:24 |
| tflink | not without system recovery, anyways | 16:24 |
| jreznik | due to the unmount/sync bug, right | 16:24 |
| tflink | yeah | 16:24 |
| tflink | leads to a non-bootable upgraded system | 16:25 |
| tflink | until the kernel and/or initramfs are redone | 16:25 |
| * tflink should probably detail instructions for that in the wiki page | 16:25 | |
| Viking-Ice | kparal, Lennart goes under poettering formaly known as mezcalero | 16:26 |
| tflink | ok, are we ready for some blocker review, then? | 16:27 |
| kparal | tflink: do you have your magic scripts ready? | 16:27 |
| jreznik | Viking-Ice: chamaeleo :) | 16:27 |
| jreznik | tflink: yep | 16:27 |
| tflink | magic scripts? | 16:28 |
| * tflink really needs to update the blocker meeting SOP - another item for the TODO list :-/ | 16:28 | |
| tflink | #topic (874276) 'Reclaim space' button never goes active on guided space reclaim dialog when installing in German, French, possibly others (18.24, 18.26) | 16:28 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=874276 | 16:28 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, anaconda, VERIFIED | 16:28 |
| kparal | should we skip verified bugs? | 16:29 |
| kparal | it's already fixed anyway, and anaconda 18.28 is pending stable | 16:29 |
| tflink | sorry, wasn't looking for that in the proposed blockers | 16:29 |
| tflink | #undo | 16:30 |
| zodbot | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x120c4190> | 16:30 |
| tflink | #undo | 16:30 |
| zodbot | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x2cd6d910> | 16:30 |
| tflink | #undo | 16:30 |
| zodbot | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x1698d3d0> | 16:30 |
| tflink | #topic (872833) ValueError: Cannot remove non-leaf device 'fedora' | 16:30 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=872833 | 16:30 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, anaconda, ASSIGNED | 16:30 |
| kparal | so, there is a problem with creating LVs in existing VGs in custom mode | 16:32 |
| tflink | this looks like a tb when trying to reuse a partition? | 16:32 |
| tflink | kparal: not sure that the first reporter was trying to do that | 16:32 |
| kparal | I'm referring to comment 21 | 16:32 |
| tflink | yeah, I think that's different from the original reporter | 16:33 |
| kparal | dlehman: discussing 872833 | 16:33 |
| kparal | I see | 16:34 |
| * dlehman wonders if all reproducers involve adding a mountpoint with no size spec | 16:34 | |
| kparal | comment 19 is a really simple reproducer | 16:34 |
| Viking-Ice | hmm should not 868505 be a proposed blocker as well? | 16:35 |
| kparal | it could be related to having empty size spec | 16:35 |
| kparal | so, this bug seems pretty easy to hit | 16:36 |
| dlehman | yes, it's triggered by empty size spec | 16:36 |
| kparal | and it seems to violate " Rejecting obviously invalid operations without crashing " | 16:36 |
| kparal | or " Creating, destroying and assigning mount points to partitions of any specified size using most commonly-used filesystem types " | 16:36 |
| Viking-Ice | yup | 16:36 |
| kparal | not providing a size is not strictly invalid operation | 16:37 |
| kparal | so if this is the real cause, I think this should be a Beta blocker | 16:38 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 872833 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 beta release criterion: "The installer's custom partitioning mode must be capable of the following ... Rejecting obviously invalid operations without crashing" | 16:38 |
| tflink | I really dislike the formatting of the new partitioning release criterion | 16:38 |
| tflink | but that's a small concern, I suppose | 16:39 |
| dlehman | there are two pieces: 1) magic handling of empty size spec is broken and 2) error handling in the path where #1 manifests is not completely correct | 16:39 |
| kparal | dlehman: do you agree this should be fixed for Beta? | 16:40 |
| dlehman | yes, absolutely | 16:40 |
| kparal | tflink: hey, and you can vote too, the fact that you handle the voting system doesn't mean you don't have a vote :) | 16:40 |
| kparal | ack | 16:40 |
| * kparal pokes everyone around | 16:41 | |
| tflink | kparal: I know, I do vote. I just tend not to when everyone seems to be going the same direction | 16:41 |
| Viking-Ice | ack | 16:41 |
| pschindl1 | ack | 16:42 |
| tflink | #agreed 872833 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 beta release criterion: "The installer's custom partitioning mode must be capable of the following ... Rejecting obviously invalid operations without crashing" | 16:42 |
| tflink | #topic (873762) [zh_CN] [zh_TW] installer hangs in Installation Summary when keyboard spoke clicked | 16:42 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=873762 | 16:42 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, anaconda, POST | 16:42 |
| tflink | how many languages does this affect? | 16:44 |
| kparal | two variations of chinese | 16:45 |
| kparal | since the translation coverage is high, it's reasonable to assume we have lots of Chinese users | 16:45 |
| kparal | it can affect other languages too, we just don't know about it | 16:46 |
| tflink | yeah, that was what I was wondering about | 16:46 |
| tflink | but I suspect that both chinese variants are almost enough to block | 16:46 |
| tflink | at the very least, I'm +1 NTH | 16:46 |
| Viking-Ice | +1 blocker | 16:46 |
| tflink | any other votes? | 16:47 |
| kparal | since it is a showstopper, I think +1 blocker is more appropriate | 16:47 |
| Viking-Ice | yeah and kinda affects the major of the population off the planet :) | 16:48 |
| Guest85807 | +1 blocker | 16:48 |
| Viking-Ice | mean on the planet | 16:48 |
| kparal | Guest85807: maybe you can rename to your FAS name, so that you're a bit less anonymous? :) | 16:48 |
| kparal | thanks | 16:48 |
| brunowolff | I forgot to authenticate and didn't nptice I had gotten changed to a guest | 16:49 |
| * kparal pokes jskladan pschindl1 mkrizek | 16:49 | |
| mkrizek | +1 blocker | 16:49 |
| pschindl1 | +1 blocker | 16:50 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 873762 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for Chinese users (zh_cn, zh_tw) - "In most cases (see Blocker_Bug_FAQ), a system installed according to any of the above criteria must boot to the 'firstboot' utility on the first boot after installation, without unintended user intervention, unless the user explicitly chooses to boot in non-graphical mode ..." | 16:50 |
| tflink | ack/nak/patch? | 16:51 |
| Viking-Ice | ack | 16:51 |
| pschindl1 | ack | 16:51 |
| mkrizek | ack | 16:51 |
| kparal | hmm, the installer actually hangs. is this the best criterion? | 16:51 |
| tflink | patch? | 16:51 |
| tflink | it hangs during install, right? | 16:52 |
| tflink | oh, I might have misread this | 16:52 |
| kparal | tflink: I think it hangs on the hub screen | 16:52 |
| kparal | so maybe " The installer must be able to complete an installation using the text, graphical and VNC installation interfaces " | 16:52 |
| tflink | yeah, I was reading "installation summary" as the screen when pkgs etc. are being installed | 16:52 |
| Viking-Ice | comment 4 it hangs | 16:52 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 873762 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for Chinese users (zh_cn, zh_tw) - "The installer must be able to complete an installation using the text, graphical and VNC installation interfaces" | 16:53 |
| kparal | ack | 16:53 |
| Viking-Ice | ack | 16:53 |
| mkrizek | ack | 16:54 |
| tflink | yeah, I was reading "installation summary" as the screen when pkgs etc. a | 16:54 |
| tflink | wow, I missed | 16:54 |
| tflink | #agreed 873762 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for Chinese users (zh_cn, zh_tw) - "The installer must be able to complete an installation using the text, graphical and VNC installation interfaces" | 16:54 |
| tflink | sorry, getting pulled into a discussion about fedup | 16:55 |
| tflink | #topic (875003) after setting invalid installation source, "closest mirror" is broken | 16:55 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=875003 | 16:55 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, anaconda, NEW | 16:55 |
| Viking-Ice | +1 nth | 16:55 |
| Viking-Ice | kparal, this does just affect those that type invalid repo right | 16:56 |
| Viking-Ice | btw which criteria is this supposed to affect | 16:57 |
| kparal | Viking-Ice: yes, you have to provide invalid repo to cause this bug | 16:57 |
| Viking-Ice | if people arent going to be paying attention during the blocker bug meeting we can just as well stop it now | 16:57 |
| kparal | but afterwards, reverting to closest mirror breaks package selection | 16:57 |
| kparal | comment 9 says how to fix it, I didn't know | 16:58 |
| Viking-Ice | so there is a workaround | 16:58 |
| kparal | there is always a workaround, don't provide invalid repos :) | 16:58 |
| Viking-Ice | ;) | 16:59 |
| tflink | I'm not sure about blocker, though | 16:59 |
| Viking-Ice | I'm +1 nth | 16:59 |
| tflink | if you mistype the repo, you could restart the installation | 16:59 |
| tflink | even if there was no workaround | 16:59 |
| Viking-Ice | yup | 16:59 |
| kparal | tflink: actually I think if you mistype the repo and then correct it, it works | 16:59 |
| kparal | tflink: it's broken just for the "revert to closest mirror" use case | 16:59 |
| kparal | from what I understand from comment 9 | 17:00 |
| Viking-Ice | which criteria is this supposed to affect? | 17:00 |
| kparal | so I'm also more inclined to just +1 nth now | 17:00 |
| tflink | then -1 blocker, +0.5 NTH | 17:00 |
| mkrizek | -1 blocker | 17:00 |
| kparal | Viking-Ice: well I assumed almost any, like " The installer must be able to use at least one of the HTTP or FTP remote package source options " | 17:00 |
| Viking-Ice | yeah but none of them mentioned closest mirror has to work | 17:01 |
| brunowolff | -1 blocker | 17:01 |
| kparal | Viking-Ice: no, it's not exactly written out that way | 17:01 |
| kparal | let's vote on NTH as well | 17:01 |
| tflink | I'm not so sure about NTH, now that I think about it harder | 17:01 |
| Viking-Ice | there is the risk factor | 17:02 |
| tflink | the workaround is OK, worst case, you need to reboot and restart the install | 17:02 |
| Viking-Ice | yeah | 17:02 |
| tflink | but assuming that one reads the release notes/commonbugs, you'd be able to figure out that you need to fix the typo | 17:02 |
| kparal | well, that workaround applies for many bugs accepted as nth, even as blockers. but I understand the concerns, it's late in the cycle | 17:03 |
| brunowolff | I don't think I'd want to take an update with just a fix for this, but don't feel so strongly about having a fix for this pulled in with some other blocker fix. | 17:03 |
| tflink | any other thoughts? | 17:04 |
| tflink | I'm slightly -1 NTH on this | 17:04 |
| Viking-Ice | yeah changing to -1 nth | 17:04 |
| tflink | I think that the odds of getting a user on beta who is using a custom repo location, types it wrong and doesn't read the docs is not so bad | 17:04 |
| tflink | not so likely, rather | 17:04 |
| mkrizek | I am for -1 NTH as well | 17:05 |
| kparal | alright | 17:05 |
| kparal | tflink: oh, should I be doing the secretary? | 17:05 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 875003 - RejectedBlocker, RejectedNTH - While an annoyance, this does not seem to be likely or severe enough to justify blocker or NTH status. A relatively painless workaround exists. | 17:06 |
| tflink | kparal: if you'd like, sure. otherwise, I'll do it after the meeting | 17:06 |
| * herlo asks how long this meeting is planned to go on. Usually FAmSCo meets here at this time. | 17:06 | |
| kparal | herlo: ouch, sorry | 17:06 |
| tflink | herlo: sorry, we can wrap up | 17:07 |
| kparal | let's finish the voting and move to #fedora-qa | 17:07 |
| kparal | ack | 17:07 |
| Viking-Ice | or just move to QA ( as I always say ) | 17:07 |
| Viking-Ice | ack | 17:07 |
| tflink | ack/nak/patch? | 17:07 |
| mkrizek | ack | 17:07 |
| herlo | well, do you guys normally go on this long? Or are we bumping up against each other? | 17:07 |
| * herlo is happy to move to another room if necessary | 17:07 | |
| tflink | #agreed 875003 - RejectedBlocker, RejectedNTH - While an annoyance, this does not seem to be likely or severe enough to justify blocker or NTH status. A relatively painless workaround exists. | 17:07 |
| tflink | herlo: depends on the time of year and if we're trying to reveiw blocker bugs or not | 17:07 |
| kparal | herlo: normally we go longer, but we had 2 hours before summer time ended | 17:07 |
| kparal | ok, let's move to #fedora-qa | 17:08 |
| herlo | kparal: okay, thanks. We'll discuss in our meeting to move to another room as well. | 17:08 |
| kparal | #endmeeting | 17:08 |
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