From Fedora Project Wiki
Meetbot link: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-11/
Attendees
- kparal (101)
- Viking-Ice (45)
- tflink (36)
- jreznik (35)
- roshi (9)
- pschindl (5)
- zodbot (4)
- nirik (3)
- satellit (3)
- sgallagh (2)
- robatino (2)
- mkrizek_ (1)
Agenda
- Previous meeting follow-up
- Fedora 20 Beta retrospective
- Fedora 20 Final planning
- Fedora.next thoughts so far
- Open floor
Previous meeting follow-up
- viking-ice to check his possible resize issue in at least TC6 (ideally RC2) - not reported yet, Viking-Ice will try to reproduce and report it this week
Fedora 20 Beta retrospective
- CommonsBugs page was not up-to-date, any help would be welcome
Fedora 20 Final planning
- Official schedule link
- FESCo approved a week shorter schedule for Final
- Final change deadline is now 2013-11-26
- TC1 compose would be done when releng was ready
Fedora.next thoughts so far
- jreznik from Base WG would like to arrange a meeting with other teams members to discuss the future processes
Open floor
- A new blockerbugs app release would happen soon
- blockerbugs app will have an API
- taskbot will be renamed to taskotron to avoid name trademark clashes
Action items
- roshi to help out adamw with CommonsBugs page
- roshi to file Final TC1 compose request
- viking-ice to check his possible resize issue in at least TC6 (ideally RC5)
IRC Log
| kparal | #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Mon Nov 11 16:00:52 2013 UTC. The chair is kparal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 16:00 |
| kparal | #meetingname fedora-qa | 16:00 |
| zodbot | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' | 16:00 |
| kparal | #topic Roll Call | 16:01 |
| kparal | who's here? | 16:01 |
| * satellit listening | 16:01 | |
| * mkrizek_ is here | 16:01 | |
| * jreznik is lurking | 16:02 | |
| * pschindl is here | 16:02 | |
| * kparal pokes tflink and roshi | 16:02 | |
| * tflink is here | 16:03 | |
| * Viking-Ice is here | 16:03 | |
| kparal | #chair pschindl tflink roshi | 16:03 |
| zodbot | Current chairs: kparal pschindl roshi tflink | 16:03 |
| * roshi is here | 16:03 | |
| kparal | let's roll | 16:04 |
| kparal | #topic Previous meeting follow-up | 16:04 |
| kparal | " viking-ice to check his possible resize issue in at least TC6 (ideally RC2) " | 16:04 |
| kparal | there's bug number (bad bad adamw), but since we release Beta I guess we're good | 16:05 |
| Viking-Ice | not much happened in that regard since I was dealing with death in the family | 16:05 |
| kparal | *no bug number | 16:05 |
| kparal | Viking-Ice: sorry to hear that | 16:05 |
| kparal | Viking-Ice: what's the bug number? | 16:05 |
| Viking-Ice | kparal, thans | 16:05 |
| Viking-Ice | mean thanks | 16:05 |
| Viking-Ice | no bug number | 16:05 |
| Viking-Ice | I did not get around to duplicate the issue I encounter from tc5 | 16:06 |
| kparal | ok, understood | 16:06 |
| kparal | do you want to keep the action item? | 16:06 |
| Viking-Ice | yeah this is a final blocker for sure ( and would have been a beta blocker ) if still present | 16:06 |
| kparal | #info viking-ice to check his possible resize issue in at least TC6 (ideally RC2) - not reported yet, Viking-Ice will try to reproduce and report it this week | 16:08 |
| kparal | #action viking-ice to check his possible resize issue in at least TC6 (ideally RC5) | 16:08 |
| kparal | ok, that's all from last week | 16:08 |
| kparal | moving on | 16:08 |
| kparal | #topic Fedora 20 Beta retrospective | 16:08 |
| kparal | #info adamw already sent an announcement to test-announce names "Fedora 20 QA Retrospective page is up" | 16:09 |
| kparal | the words of the classic say: "We use the retrospective page to track things that went well and things | 16:09 |
| kparal | that didn't go so well during the Fedora 20 validation process, and for | 16:09 |
| kparal | tracking ideas we have but don't have time to act on during the rush of | 16:09 |
| kparal | doing validation (that's the wishlist). | 16:09 |
| kparal | Please, add any feedback you have of this type to the retrospective | 16:09 |
| kparal | page! There are instructions on the page for adding feedback." | 16:09 |
| kparal | do you have anything Beta-related that you would like to discuss here and now? | 16:10 |
| tflink | how's the commonbugs page coming? | 16:10 |
| kparal | let's see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F20_bugs | 16:11 |
| kparal | not updated in a month | 16:11 |
| jreznik | resize bugs should be added there at least | 16:12 |
| * satellit update the non-blocking tests for sugar-desktop and soas. I added an external link to some suggestions | 16:12 | |
| kparal | a lot of bugs not yet documented: http://bit.ly/fedora-commonbugs-proposed | 16:12 |
| kparal | #info CommonsBugs page is not up-to-day, any help would be welcome | 16:12 |
| kparal | does somebody feel like having an action item for this? :) | 16:13 |
| * tflink volunteers roshi | 16:14 | |
| kparal | eggscelent! | 16:14 |
| roshi | works for me | 16:14 |
| kparal | #action roshi to help out adamw with CommonsBugs page | 16:14 |
| roshi | it was on the list of things to work on :) | 16:14 |
| kparal | thanks, roshi | 16:14 |
| kparal | pschindl: remind me to ask our interns to help out as well if needed | 16:15 |
| pschindl | kparal: ok | 16:15 |
| * satellit that link is here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_20_Beta_RC5_Desktop#Non_release-blocking_desktops:_x86_.2F_x86_64 | 16:15 | |
| tflink | btw, it should really be done before tomorrow | 16:15 |
| kparal | hmm, right, tomorrow is the release day, right? | 16:16 |
| tflink | yep | 16:16 |
| roshi | ok | 16:16 |
| kparal | ok, no interns then | 16:16 |
| kparal | robatino: maybe you'd like to discuss your proposal of forwarding FEs into the next milestone? | 16:17 |
| kparal | kind of related | 16:17 |
| robatino | i thought it should be on the mailing list? | 16:17 |
| Viking-Ice | why should we not do that ? | 16:17 |
| kparal | the last email I saw was roshi proposing a vote in the meeting | 16:18 |
| Viking-Ice | FE's are FE's there is nothing wrong with moving them between milestones it's not like we are obligated to pull them in, in that next milestone anyway | 16:19 |
| jreznik | but once on the list, especially auto generated list put into the ticket... | 16:19 |
| kparal | the question was whether to move them to accepted or proposed state for the next milestone | 16:19 |
| robatino | all blockers and FEs are regularly re-evaluated anyway, correct? seems like the risk is minimal, especially since if they're automatically promoted, it would be at the beginning of the next stage | 16:20 |
| jreznik | kparal: proposed - I don't have any objection | 16:20 |
| tflink | we don't always review the proposed FEs, though. my only concern would be if the list got huge | 16:20 |
| kparal | I think roshi has a good point that between Alpha-Beta it is not that risky and we could auto-accepted. but for Final, I wouldn't recommend this | 16:20 |
| jreznik | bigger issue I'd say are that bugs that were swaying from being blocker, not being blocker, then forgotten, popping for several other releases... | 16:21 |
| Viking-Ice | tflink, huge list == longer meeting time ;) | 16:21 |
| Viking-Ice | + I think this or next release cycle we be the last as we know it anyway | 16:21 |
| roshi | yeah - fedora.next is going to change things | 16:22 |
| Viking-Ice | after that main focus will be on whatever baseOS picks decides | 16:22 |
| kparal | robatino: as far as I know, we don't spend time with acceptedFEs during blocker review meetings. so it's usually adamw's call when creating the request | 16:22 |
| kparal | so, I give +1 to roshi's reply in that thread | 16:23 |
| kparal | if more people want to voice their opinion, please do that in that thread | 16:24 |
| kparal | alright | 16:24 |
| kparal | let's move | 16:25 |
| kparal | #topic Fedora 20 Final planning | 16:25 |
| kparal | it seems we should receive first Final compose tomorrow | 16:25 |
| Viking-Ice | that's fast | 16:25 |
| kparal | http://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-20/f-20-quality-tasks.html | 16:25 |
| tflink | they took a week off of final | 16:26 |
| Viking-Ice | no rest for the wicked ay | 16:26 |
| tflink | er, moved final freeze back one week | 16:26 |
| kparal | but I haven't seen any compose request, or maybe adamw hasn't subscribed me | 16:26 |
| Viking-Ice | tflink, not forward | 16:26 |
| kparal | so, I don't know if it's going to happen | 16:26 |
| Viking-Ice | who's bright idea was that | 16:26 |
| Viking-Ice | jreznik, you? | 16:26 |
| kparal | the go/nogo is Thu 2013-12-05 | 16:26 |
| kparal | so, 3 weeks and a bit | 16:26 |
| jreznik | Viking-Ice: everyones from the go/no-go, actually I was not as sure about that but... | 16:27 |
| kparal | #info FESCo approved a week shorter schedule for Final | 16:27 |
| kparal | Viking-Ice: if we slip, we slip. nothing changes in that regard | 16:27 |
| kparal | in that distant possibility that we have no blocker, we release before Christmas | 16:28 |
| kparal | would be definitely nice | 16:28 |
| jreznik | with this decision, TCs should come really early, so anyone to file the request? | 16:28 |
| jreznik | kparal: would be nice, really... | 16:28 |
| Viking-Ice | let's call that yule or winter solstice christmas is fake and filled with coca cola santas around the world | 16:28 |
| sgallagh | kparal: For clarity, we approved the shorter schedule to avoid the holidays. If any slip occurs, it means the release must come after the new year. | 16:28 |
| tflink | I don't think there's a point in filing the TC request before stuff moves from updates-testing to stable | 16:29 |
| kparal | sgallagh: thanks for clarification | 16:29 |
| jreznik | tflink: yep, that was the question how far we are | 16:29 |
| kparal | since adamw is out today, does somebody have experience with filing compose requests? does somebody want to take it? | 16:29 |
| Viking-Ice | sgallagh, slipping past new year would have been betterr | 16:29 |
| Viking-Ice | no point in stressing everyone in QA | 16:29 |
| tflink | infra doesn't unfreeze until tomorrow, so a push won't happen until then | 16:29 |
| tflink | infra/releng | 16:29 |
| sgallagh | Viking-Ice: Isn't stress part of the job description? (kidding) | 16:29 |
| Viking-Ice | kparal, the workflow for that seemed to be utterly borken | 16:30 |
| tflink | has anyone talked to the anaconda devs on whether moving things up is practical? | 16:30 |
| * tflink is thinking about the resize-happy-fun-time stuff | 16:30 | |
| Viking-Ice | it looked like the same infra ticket was always re-used | 16:30 |
| kparal | #info releng unfreezes tomorrow, the compose request serves no purpose today | 16:30 |
| Viking-Ice | mean releng ticket | 16:30 |
| pschindl | tflink: I talked to vpodzime and he looked quite happy about that | 16:31 |
| tflink | if that code isn't going to be done in time, moving freeze up is just going to create churn and other PITA activities | 16:31 |
| jreznik | tflink: well, that resize stuff is pretty bad but before we knew it, fesco already changed schedule and people on go/no-go were still in favour of it | 16:31 |
| kparal | #info final change deadline is now 2013-11-26 | 16:31 |
| jreznik | tflink: for anaconda - I'd say there's no big difference - it's always post freeze work | 16:31 |
| tflink | jreznik: just more pressure for them and more churn for the rest of us | 16:32 |
| * nirik tries to read up, but notes that updates is already flowing. We unfreze them after all the items from the beta were in stable. | 16:32 | |
| kparal | so, if there's no point in creating the request today, I'll create an action point for adamw to create it tomorrow (or once everything is ready) | 16:32 |
| jreznik | tflink: well, I asked on the go/no-go if we still want to proceed with that change, nobody objected even knew about the resize issues | 16:32 |
| * tflink should have been paying better attention | 16:33 | |
| kparal | nirik: so, can Final TC1 compose start happening today? | 16:33 |
| tflink | oh well, same old, same old, I guess :-/ | 16:33 |
| nirik | kparal: I suppose it could, sure. | 16:33 |
| * Viking-Ice should have attended that meeting but death and all... | 16:33 | |
| kparal | #info correction: Final TC1 compose can be fired off today | 16:34 |
| kparal | so, who wants to create the ticket? | 16:35 |
| jreznik | Viking-Ice: compared to real life happening, this is just Fedora | 16:35 |
| kparal | https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5787 seems to cover only Beta, a new ticket should be created for Final | 16:35 |
| tflink | correct, we create new releng tickets for each milestone | 16:35 |
| jreznik | sgallagh: btw. the agreement was - if Beta slips one more, we will aim next year, otherwise it would be non-sense one slip = new year for final as we short it a bit just to gain this one week as buffer... but we agreed not to try to release a christamas gift :) | 16:36 |
| kparal | tflink: roshi: can one of you take this please? I guess guys from CZ want to disconnect asap | 16:36 |
| tflink | kparal: unless pschindl wants to do it | 16:37 |
| jreznik | btw. for the question why I reopened the Beta ticket - with dennis, we agreed that for transparency and trackability, we want it to be stated somewhere and ticket looked like a good candidate | 16:37 |
| roshi | sure, I can take it | 16:37 |
| pschindl | tflink: I won't be near my computer this evening. So not today :( | 16:38 |
| kparal | roshi: thanks again | 16:38 |
| kparal | #action roshi to file Final TC1 compose request | 16:38 |
| roshi | no problem | 16:38 |
| roshi | :) | 16:38 |
| kparal | roshi: please fill the same CC as in the Beta ticket | 16:39 |
| roshi | will do | 16:39 |
| kparal | ok, anything else regarding Final schedule? | 16:39 |
| kparal | #topic Fedora.next thoughts so far | 16:40 |
| kparal | the agenda says: " The fedora.next proposal has been moving along quite rapidly, and we haven't yet come up with any kind of formal evaluation or plan for input into the WGs " | 16:40 |
| kparal | unfortunately, I haven't followed WGs closely | 16:40 |
| tflink | has anyone been keeping up with all the WGs? | 16:41 |
| kparal | anyone can say something interesting? | 16:41 |
| Viking-Ice | for the most part | 16:41 |
| * jreznik is trying to follow up with WGs | 16:41 | |
| Viking-Ice | things are just progressing on the path one ( or at least I ) expected | 16:41 |
| kparal | Viking-Ice: do you have some comments related to QA field? | 16:42 |
| jreznik | but we as Base WG have the same issue - we need input from other WGs/groups so we probably need some sort of higher level group consisting from WGs members, QA and other teams for coordination | 16:42 |
| Viking-Ice | kparal, things are no where there yet | 16:42 |
| Viking-Ice | kparal, but each WG will have to handle that anyway for their "products" | 16:42 |
| jreznik | so how would QA feel about being part of this group? not sure about how to implement it, but definitely worth discussion | 16:43 |
| Viking-Ice | we focus only on core/base | 16:43 |
| kparal | jreznik: does it have to be a formal group with regular meetings, or can we just set some time and meet to discuss stuff? | 16:43 |
| jreznik | Viking-Ice: that's the question - I think teams like QA, design etc. should back up all the products as a service for them | 16:43 |
| Viking-Ice | jreznik, what are you proposing exactly | 16:43 |
| tflink | "qaaas" :) | 16:44 |
| jreznik | Viking-Ice: I'm not sure - see what kparal asked, how formal it would be, regular or on demand... but at least in the beginning all parties should be in touch regularly | 16:44 |
| Viking-Ice | jreznik, we arent' going to be backing up anything officially or provide resources explicitly to those groups | 16:44 |
| * jreznik is asking people what they think about it before doing formal proposal to board/fesco | 16:44 | |
| Viking-Ice | they willl reach out into these communities and ask for assistance if no responds to that they have to do the work themselves | 16:45 |
| jreznik | Viking-Ice: why? I think it's the only way how we can succeed... share as much resources, do not fragment more than needed | 16:45 |
| Viking-Ice | jreznik, because we dont have any resources to share | 16:46 |
| Viking-Ice | and we should not do that explicitly | 16:46 |
| Viking-Ice | sub-communities need to stand on their own feed and wg's are nothing more then sub-communites ( just with a bit of direction ) | 16:47 |
| kparal | jreznik: personally I'm afraid I don't have time to sit in yet another committee / discussion group / something. but if we set up a time for multiple teams to meet and discuss the problems, I would probably attend. and I guess other QA members as well | 16:47 |
| kparal | maybe start with one-shot meetings? | 16:47 |
| tflink | yeah, the timing of this isn't great | 16:47 |
| jreznik | Viking-Ice: for this, we don't have resources :) | 16:48 |
| jreznik | kparal: that's my concern about overcommiting people | 16:48 |
| * nirik thinks it's hard to talk about QA'ing something where we don't yet know whats being produced/delivered. | 16:48 | |
| Viking-Ice | jreznik, I think tflink or adamw pointed that out at flock | 16:48 |
| Viking-Ice | matt promised to pull a rabbit out of hat and spawn resources like a wild fire | 16:49 |
| tflink | Viking-Ice: I don't remember the conversation going quite like that | 16:49 |
| jreznik | but at least for initial picture where we stand, it would be great to meet - at least that one shot, everyone has some expectations he assume :) | 16:49 |
| Viking-Ice | jreznik, that things and how they stand are simple RH product manager magically thought hey could tap into QA resources to handle this failing to understand those resources dont exist | 16:51 |
| * jreznik will try to propose it this week, just would like to speak with more people to get a clue how to make it... mostly it seems, people are in favor of it | 16:51 | |
| kparal | #info jreznik from Base WG would like to arrange a meeting with other teams members to discuss the future processes | 16:51 |
| Viking-Ice | I've been trying to get some goddam answers from the anconda people what they can or cannot so we can find space to handle multiple "products" but getting answer from them is like pulling a candy from a baby | 16:52 |
| jreznik | Viking-Ice: agree, something I'm trying to tell people here, just there are no PM involved :) | 16:52 |
| Viking-Ice | jreznik, I will be going head against the baseWG with my FedoraOS proposal | 16:52 |
| jreznik | Viking-Ice: share it pls :) | 16:52 |
| Viking-Ice | when it's ready | 16:53 |
| jreznik | Viking-Ice: when it's ready is late as WGs are progressing | 16:53 |
| Viking-Ice | jreznik, well I asked FESCO to hold the presses until I could present it to the community | 16:54 |
| Viking-Ice | and they rickrolled me apparently | 16:54 |
| jreznik | we are bit OT now | 16:54 |
| * tflink has a couple of things for open floor | 16:55 | |
| jreznik | but you know, showing stuff early make sense in communities | 16:55 |
| kparal | alright, anything else to add? | 16:55 |
| kparal | #topic Open floor | 16:56 |
| kparal | tflink: what do you have? | 16:56 |
| tflink | as a heads up, we're going to be doing a new blockerbugs release soon (hopefully in the next several days) | 16:56 |
| Viking-Ice | jreznik, being allowed to come up with alternative proposal otthen RH product manager living in their ivory tower in phonex tossing prd's which arent applicable to open community between themselves makes no sense but here we are... | 16:56 |
| kparal | #info a new blockerbugs app release will happen soon | 16:57 |
| tflink | it should be pretty transparent, but the login mechanism has changed and a few minor-looking changes came in | 16:57 |
| tflink | the biggest thing is the API support from GSoC | 16:57 |
| kparal | tflink: do we already have some consumer? | 16:57 |
| jreznik | Viking-Ice: RH product managers don't touch Fedora at all :) | 16:58 |
| * pschindl has to leave. | 16:58 | |
| kparal | pschindl: see you | 16:58 |
| tflink | kparal: that ended up not happening for GSoC and nobody's written anything yet | 16:58 |
| kparal | ok | 16:58 |
| tflink | should be pretty easy, though | 16:58 |
| kparal | #info blockerbugs app will have an API | 16:58 |
| tflink | the other thing is that taskbot is going to be getting a name change | 16:59 |
| Viking-Ice | jreznik, and applying prd's ( without mrd's ) just appeared from nowhere aha | 16:59 |
| kparal | we had the old one for way too long :) | 16:59 |
| tflink | the name 'taskbot' did not get approval from legal, so we're going to be changing to 'taskotron' | 16:59 |
| tflink | which does have approval from legal | 16:59 |
| kparal | heh. doesn't that violate the Tron brand? :) | 17:00 |
| jreznik | taskotron :) | 17:00 |
| tflink | kparal: well, legal did approve the use of the name :) | 17:00 |
| kparal | #info taskbot will be renamed to taskotron to avoid name trademark clashes | 17:00 |
| jreznik | kparal: you can say it comes from cyclotron :) | 17:00 |
| tflink | fortunately, we got this taken care of before anything got into production | 17:01 |
| tflink | so a pain, but it could have been so much worse :) | 17:01 |
| kparal | taskotron is cool, love it :) | 17:01 |
| * kparal needs to check english pronunciation, however | 17:02 | |
| * jreznik should leave now to move home before another late evening meeting... | 17:02 | |
| kparal | jreznik: thanks for coming | 17:02 |
| kparal | tflink: anything else? | 17:02 |
| kparal | or anyone? | 17:02 |
| tflink | nope, that was it | 17:02 |
| kparal | ok, thanks for coming, everyone | 17:03 |
| kparal | #endmeeting | 17:03 |
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