From Fedora Project Wiki
Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-07-14
Spins as Features
- Some push back from folks that think it is too much work to create a feature page
- All spins must be proposed as features if they will be be offered at spins.fedoraproject.org
- Feature page can be re-used (copy/pasted from release to release as necessary)
- Feature pages are not required for the following spins:
- Fedora--classic dvd-install spin
- Desktop--live spin
- KDE--live spin
Misc
- rolling back to the F9 gold release of livecd-creator in order to make the F9 live images--selinux bug
- Fedora board is ack/nacking the final set of names to go to public vote. Should have a list within hours.
- Ticket #251 (Euthanize orphans)--https://fedorahosted.org/projects/rel-eng/ticket/251
- deadline is set for 2008-07-18
IRC Transcript
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - roll call | 13:01 | |
| f13 | ping: notting jeremy jwb warren rdieter lmacken poelcat wwoods | 13:02 |
|---|---|---|
| * poelcat here | 13:02 | |
| f13 | and anybody else that may be interested | 13:02 |
| * warren here | 13:02 | |
| cyberspace_spide | hi f13 | 13:03 |
| * jwb is here | 13:06 | |
| f13 | notting is doing an interview, and jeremy is on PTO watching the tour | 13:06 |
| skvidal | f13: he said he was en-route tothe office about 10 minutes ago | 13:07 |
| jwb | PTO? | 13:07 |
| jwb | tour? | 13:07 |
| f13 | skvidal: ah | 13:07 |
| f13 | jwb: Paid Time Off | 13:08 |
| f13 | jwb: Tour de France | 13:08 |
| skvidal | jwb: the tour-de-random-druggies-on-bikes | 13:08 |
| f13 | heh | 13:08 |
| * smooge watch the wheels go round | 13:09 | |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: rel-eng - F9 spins | 13:09 | |
| f13 | Looks like I have to roll back to the F9 gold release of livecd-creator in order to make the F9 live images. I'll be doing that today | 13:09 |
| * nirik cheers | 13:09 | |
| f13 | Need to see if the games spin got fixed | 13:09 |
| * rdieter pokes in a wee bit late | 13:09 | |
| f13 | not much else here, so unless anybody has anything on this topic, I'll move on | 13:10 |
| f13 | oh | 13:10 |
| rdieter | livecd-tools bug? | 13:10 |
| f13 | rdieter: apparently, something with selinux | 13:10 |
| rdieter | ok | 13:10 |
| f13 | THere seems to be some push back to doing Spins as Features | 13:10 |
| jwb | that is in relation to f10 spins | 13:11 |
| f13 | I want to make sure people here agree with doing them as features before I make any claims on behalf of releng | 13:11 |
| f13 | correct, that's an F10 spins thing | 13:11 |
| jwb | i agree | 13:11 |
| * jwb listens to the crickets | 13:12 | |
| f13 | lets put it this way, is there anybody here who does not agree that spins should be done as features? | 13:12 |
| jwb | question: | 13:12 |
| jwb | does that apply to _all_ spins? | 13:12 |
| rdieter | features are good, what's the push-back/complaints? (too much extra work?) | 13:12 |
| f13 | rdieter: essentially from what I can gather. | 13:13 |
| rdieter | tough cookies, imo. | 13:13 |
| f13 | jwb: IMHO it would only apply to the spins that are not done as part of the standard release, IE the ones that show up on spins.fp.o | 13:13 |
| jwb | then XFCE, Games, and FEL don't have to have Feature pages | 13:13 |
| jwb | oh wait | 13:14 |
| jwb | i misread what you wrote | 13:14 |
| jwb | sorry | 13:14 |
| jwb | f13, so the spins that _don't_ need Feature pages are Desktop (gnome) and KDE? | 13:15 |
| f13 | and Fedora | 13:15 |
| f13 | Fedora is actually a "spin" | 13:15 |
| jwb | Fedora is the livecd? | 13:15 |
| f13 | no, we never said anywhere that spins are only live images IIRC | 13:15 |
| f13 | it's just that other exploaded trees don't really make sense. | 13:15 |
| jwb | do we generate Fedora as a non-livecd? | 13:15 |
| jwb | i'm just trying to make sure we're talking about the same things | 13:16 |
| f13 | 'Fedora' is the only non-livecd thing we do, aside from the Everything/ tree | 13:16 |
| f13 | Fedora is what shows up in pub/fedora/linux/releases/<version>/Fedora/ | 13:17 |
| jwb | then that is what i was referring to as Desktop | 13:17 |
| jwb | is Desktop different? | 13:17 |
| f13 | desktop has durastically less software | 13:18 |
| jwb | where did Desktop come from? | 13:19 |
| jwb | or is _that_ the livecd? | 13:19 |
| * jwb thinks he has his spin names backwards | 13:19 | |
| rdieter | jwb: yes! | 13:19 |
| rdieter | Desktop = live, Fedora = classic dvd-install spin | 13:20 |
| jwb | ok, so i had them backwards, but net effect is all of the ones i listed are what we aren't requiring Feature pages for | 13:20 |
| jwb | question #2: | 13:20 |
| jwb | once a Feature page is created (e.g. for XFCE), does it have to be redone every release? | 13:20 |
| jwb | if so... recycling the old Feature page should be sufficient... | 13:20 |
| rdieter | redone... yes, afaict. | 13:21 |
| f13 | jwb: yes, since that tells everybody involved that hey, we're doing this spin again this release | 13:22 |
| jwb | ok, but just recycling the old page should work for that, yes? | 13:22 |
| f13 | in theory | 13:23 |
| jwb | i ask because if we point out that it's a one time thing (with tweaks if needed), then the overall burden is less and people may gripe less | 13:23 |
| f13 | I thought that was pointed out :/ | 13:24 |
| jwb | can't hurt to point it out again in the meeting minutes | 13:24 |
| * jwb wonders if poelcat is listening | 13:24 | |
| * poelcat pulled away... back now | 13:25 | |
| f13 | so, Proposal: Release Engineering would very much prefer that spins are handled as release features, each spin, each release, for those spins that would be offered at spins.fp.o. (Feature page can be recycled/re-used) | 13:25 |
| f13 | +1 | 13:25 |
| jwb | +1 | 13:25 |
| rdieter | +1 | 13:26 |
| lmacken | +1 | 13:26 |
| poelcat | "recycling feature pages" is kind of messy because they are targeted to a specific release | 13:26 |
| jwb | poelcat, not really. the content is the important part. copy/paste should work for most things | 13:26 |
| poelcat | sure... copy/paste to a new page is fine | 13:26 |
| f13 | poelcat: by recycle a cut/paste is OK | 13:26 |
| poelcat | yes :) | 13:27 |
| * poelcat thought you were going to change the targeted release on a given page, thus leaving a hole | 13:27 | |
| f13 | ok, that passes, by whatever measure we have for "pass" | 13:27 |
| nirik | (thats for F10, right? the F9 spins on the schedule now are ok? ) | 13:27 |
| jwb | yes | 13:27 |
| poelcat | not that I want to go this direction... would "spins feature pages" be formatted differently from regular features? | 13:28 |
| f13 | I'll make releng's desires known to FESCo again to see if we can't get fesco to vote on it again. | 13:28 |
| f13 | poelcat: I wouldn't think so. SOme sections may be extremely easy to fill in, like the rollback section. | 13:29 |
| poelcat | f13: good | 13:29 |
| poelcat | do we need special milestones on the schedule specific to spins if they are tracking a given release? | 13:30 |
| poelcat | IOW for F10... what special tasks related to spins need to be done by certain dates? | 13:30 |
| f13 | I wouldn't think so, that's kind of why I want to use the feature system, we get all that for free | 13:30 |
| poelcat | ahhh | 13:30 |
| poelcat | okay | 13:30 |
| poelcat | so everything has to be "pretty much done" by feature freeze? | 13:30 |
| jwb | yes, with the obvious exception that we might have to bring in fixes for the spins, just like the RELEASE spins | 13:31 |
| jwb | but the bulk of the content should be done | 13:31 |
| f13 | and it should have been tested | 13:31 |
| f13 | or be testable | 13:31 |
| jwb | right. the testing part of the Feature page is pretty important :) | 13:32 |
| * jeremy is here now, btw -- so if there's anything that needed me, circle back eventually | 13:33 | |
| jwb | we needed anaconda to install from a git repo | 13:33 |
| * jeremy beats jwb with a stick | 13:33 | |
| jwb | :) | 13:33 |
| f13 | jwb: from a vendor tag in a git repo | 13:34 |
| jwb | yes | 13:34 |
| f13 | jeremy: do you have any objections to seeing the Spins be treated as release features, and go through the Feature process each reelase? | 13:34 |
| jeremy | nope | 13:34 |
| f13 | (each individual spin that we want to do that is) | 13:34 |
| f13 | grat. | 13:34 |
| f13 | great that is. | 13:34 |
| jeremy | hopefully this would also include the spins going out at least at beta or preview time for testing as actual isos via torrent | 13:34 |
| f13 | jeremy: that could definitely be arranged. | 13:35 |
| jeremy | it seems to make some sense | 13:35 |
| f13 | k, lets move on. | 13:36 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: rel-eng - F10 names | 13:36 | |
| f13 | Fedora board is ack/nacking the final set of names to go to public vote. Should have a list within hours. | 13:37 |
| f13 | jwb: the ticket will be updated with the pre-approved names | 13:37 |
| jwb | about damn time! | 13:37 |
| jwb | ;) | 13:37 |
| f13 | yes :( | 13:38 |
| f13 | ok, moving on... | 13:39 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: rel-eng - F10 Alpha | 13:39 | |
| f13 | er whoops | 13:39 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: rel-eng - Orphan Purge | 13:39 | |
| f13 | .rel 251 | 13:39 |
| zodbot | f13: #251 (Euthanize orphans) - Fedora Release Engineering - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/rel-eng/ticket/251 | 13:39 |
| f13 | warren: update on this? | 13:39 |
| warren | f13: the deadline was set for Jul 18th | 13:39 |
| * nirik laughs at that summary... | 13:39 | |
| warren | f13: (I kept asking you last week if July 18th was good, no response, so just went ahead.) | 13:40 |
| jwb | sounds like we're on track | 13:40 |
| f13 | warren: sorry, I must have missed the questions. | 13:40 |
| * warren gets new list of orphans. | 13:40 | |
| f13 | cool, we can move on then. | 13:40 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: rel-eng - F10 Alpha | 13:41 | |
| f13 | F10 alpha is coming up fast. | 13:42 |
| f13 | we've got tickets listed for what we need to do | 13:42 |
| f13 | FESCo approved our week bump of schedule | 13:42 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora rel-eng - maintaine containment | 13:44 | |
| f13 | er | 13:44 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora rel-eng - maintainer containment | 13:44 | |
| jeremy | main livecd was still fitting as of friday, it looks like svahl made some fixes for the kde one today | 13:44 |
| f13 | casey dahlin (sadmac2) and abadger1999 have made good progress on the maintainer containment stuff | 13:44 |
| f13 | in fact, pkgdb and the cvs acl scripts are done. Now it's just a matter of turning them on, seeding the 'uberpackager' group, and then scheduling the mass opening of packages | 13:45 |
| f13 | we need to run this through FESCo one more time too, casey and I will be doing that this thursday | 13:45 |
| f13 | any comments on that? | 13:47 |
| f13 | nope. | 13:49 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Rel-eng - releng2 | 13:49 | |
| f13 | lmacken: got an update? | 13:49 |
| jwb | releng2? | 13:50 |
| rdieter | rel eng, the next generation | 13:51 |
| f13 | a rhel5 replacement for the one machine we're using in PHX for various releease engineering tasks | 13:51 |
| f13 | (like rawhide creation, bodhi, package signing, etc...) | 13:51 |
| jwb | k | 13:51 |
| warren | http://fpaste.org/paste/3554 | 13:51 |
| jwb | we being you :) | 13:51 |
| warren | updated orphan list | 13:51 |
| jwb | death | 13:53 |
| f13 | no reply from luke :/ | 13:54 |
| jeremy | sad face | 13:54 |
| f13 | he's been working to re-deploy bodhi as a distributed app, so that i'ts not overloaded when we do things on releng2 | 13:54 |
| f13 | but that's required a bunch of python-fedora updates | 13:54 |
| f13 | I would really like to see this done before too long so that we're not switching out the rawhide creation stuff too late in the cycle. | 13:55 |
| f13 | but maybe that means bringing up releng2 and leaving releng1 for bodhi until bodhi is ready to move. I'll bring that up with lmacken and mmcgrath later. | 13:55 |
| jwb | confused | 13:56 |
| jwb | why is bodhi tied to rel-eng? | 13:56 |
| f13 | jwb: it runs on the same system | 13:56 |
| jwb | is there a reason it has to? | 13:57 |
| f13 | since we require a rather beefy system, the ugprade to RHEL5 was going to be on the same hardware, so we couldn't have two releng boxes going at once. | 13:57 |
| f13 | jwb: at the time, lack of hardware. | 13:57 |
| f13 | we have less hardware crunch right now | 13:57 |
| jwb | ok, so it's just coincidence, and not a specific bodhi<->rel-eng tie | 13:57 |
| f13 | no, but releng are the principle users of bodhi (: | 13:57 |
| f13 | ok, we're near time. | 13:59 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora rel-eng - open floor | 13:59 | |
| jwb | sigul? | 14:00 |
| jwb | how's the card thing coming | 14:00 |
| f13 | still waiting on the cards to show up. I'm getting a bit nervous :/ | 14:01 |
| jwb | due to the delay? if they are coming from Germany, it might take time to clear customs.. | 14:02 |
| f13 | yeah, due to the delay | 14:02 |
| f13 | I was never given any shipping ETA or anything | 14:02 |
| f13 | alright, lets call it a meeting. thanks folks | 14:05 |
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