From Fedora Project Wiki
Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-09-15
F10 Beta
- froze on Thursday
- have had a few recent days of installable rawhide
- review of development progress and stability in different areas
IRC Transcript
| f13 | ping: notting jeremy spot lmacken wwoods warren rdieter_afk poelcat | 10:00 |
|---|---|---|
| * notting is here | 10:00 | |
| * spot is here | 10:01 | |
| jeremy | hi | 10:01 |
| * poelcat here | 10:01 | |
| * wwoods | 10:02 | |
| f13 | probably enough to get started | 10:02 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - BETA!!! | 10:02 | |
| f13 | We froze on Thursday night, and I started the signing process then | 10:03 |
| wwoods | woo, etc | 10:03 |
| f13 | quite a lot of packages got signed and written, but not everything. I'm trying to find teh problem ones and fix those up | 10:03 |
| f13 | rawhide itself has composed OK the past couple days, and anaconda is usable at least in how I've tried it | 10:04 |
| f13 | but I suspect things are still a bit... rough there. | 10:04 |
| f13 | I invited a few folks to give us status on their areas, mclasen: desktop, ajax: X, kylem,j-rod: kernel | 10:04 |
| f13 | and clumens: anaconda | 10:04 |
| f13 | in the interest of letting these folks get back to work... | 10:05 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Beta - Desktop | 10:05 | |
| f13 | mclasen: can you start us out? | 10:05 |
| mclasen | sure | 10:05 |
| mclasen | I don't think there's anything blocking the beta, as far as desktop is concerned | 10:05 |
| mclasen | after the gdm messup last thursday got straightened out | 10:05 |
| f13 | mclasen: is there still an issue with doing shutdowns and such? | 10:06 |
| f13 | or is that in the gdm fix? | 10:06 |
| mclasen | problem areas that need attention after the beta are smb support | 10:06 |
| clumens | THUD | 10:06 |
| mclasen | f13: thats all the one-line gdm typo of last thursday | 10:06 |
| wwoods | bluez will probably need some poking, since it's all-new | 10:06 |
| wwoods | and requires special hardware to test | 10:06 |
| f13 | mclasen: interesting. I thought I was still seeing it. | 10:07 |
| mclasen | bluez, yeah, I don't know why that was pushed in on freeze day ... | 10:07 |
| f13 | ah, I have the wrong gdm. ok. | 10:07 |
| f13 | mclasen: bluez was non-functional before beta as it was | 10:07 |
| f13 | mclasen: I talked with david woodhouse a bit and we wanted to get something in that was usable for beta. | 10:07 |
| mclasen | sure | 10:07 |
| jeremy | mclasen: with the live image I built this morning, I'm seeing hangs on login. killing pulseaudio a few times eventually gets me logged in | 10:08 |
| wwoods | jeremy: you sure it's killing pulse and not just the keyboard/mouse making the system unhang? | 10:08 |
| mclasen | there's been a bunch of PA bugs filed this weekend | 10:08 |
| jeremy | wwoods: not necessarily | 10:09 |
| * jeremy just saw this before lunch | 10:09 | |
| notting | mclasen: well, part of the gdm/CK issue is that it broke PA too | 10:09 |
| wwoods | is the GDM/CK thing also the cause of the PK failure-to-authenticate junk? | 10:09 |
| mclasen | I guess we need to wait till lennart arrives in Portland and figures out hotel wifi... | 10:09 |
| * lmacken arrives a bit late | 10:09 | |
| notting | wwoods: yes. | 10:09 |
| wwoods | figured as much. | 10:09 |
| mclasen | anyway, thats all the status I have | 10:09 |
| f13 | ok, thanks. | 10:10 |
| f13 | mclasen: so as far as you know, we're not really waiting on anything desktop related for the beta? | 10:10 |
| mclasen | yeah | 10:10 |
| f13 | thanks. | 10:10 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - kernel | 10:10 | |
| f13 | kylem: j-rod: take it away | 10:10 |
| kylem | Everything seems like it's chugging along to ship with .27 in F10. | 10:11 |
| kylem | we're at -rc6, things have calmed down a lot, and weren't it for KS this week (though, maybe because Linus is at home in Portland for it) we'll have -rc7 this week. | 10:11 |
| j-rod | ya, things are generally happy, I have four or five machines all rolling along just fine on current kernels | 10:11 |
| kylem | rawhide seems fine on my machines, there's a few bug reports about non-booting machines, but they generally seem to be the usual ones that gets fixed when -debug gets switched over. | 10:12 |
| j-rod | just some quirkiness w/graphics on one box, though I'm not the only one seeing it | 10:12 |
| j-rod | (bug 462098) | 10:12 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=462098 medium, medium, ---, xgl-maint@redhat.com, NEW, Intel display hangs unless the system gets mouse/keyboard input | 10:12 |
| kylem | that's an interrupt bug, keithp fixed that upstream this weekend. | 10:13 |
| kylem | (iirc) | 10:13 |
| wwoods | ah yes - if someone could attach xorg.conf / log info to that bug, I'd appreciate it (my affected machine is at home) | 10:13 |
| j-rod | kylem: oh really?... | 10:13 |
| j-rod | wwoods: I just did | 10:13 |
| wwoods | or a comment indicating "yes, we know what's causing this, hang on for a fix" | 10:13 |
| wwoods | j-rod: my hero! thanks. | 10:13 |
| f13 | airlied was just building a kernel and davej has one kernel build thats newer than what is currently tagged for beta, I'd like to know if and what we should be pulling in. | 10:13 |
| j-rod | well, no xorg.conf, since there wasn't one | 10:13 |
| j-rod | airlied's kernel didn't help my situation... curious if that patch is the same one kylem is talking about... | 10:14 |
| kylem | my home dsl is completely hosed, so i can't get at my email, so i can't let you know, i'm afraid. :( | 10:15 |
| f13 | suck | 10:16 |
| f13 | ok, so there are potentially newer kernels we'll need, we'll have to keep an eye on that. | 10:16 |
| f13 | anything else on kernel? | 10:16 |
| kylem | f13, i'd say going with the latest and greatest is probably the best idea. | 10:16 |
| kylem | f13, nope. | 10:16 |
| kylem | oh, i spent a portion of the weekend chugging through rawhide wireless bug reports, going to attack those this week. | 10:17 |
| kylem | but that's post-beta, i'm afraid :\ | 10:17 |
| f13 | k | 10:17 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - anaconda | 10:17 | |
| f13 | clumens: you have the floor | 10:17 |
| clumens | gentlemen, i'd like to discuss the topic of soup. | 10:18 |
| clumens | no seriously, things are looking up from last week this time. static networking is probably busted, but preupgrade works and livecds work last time jeremy tested them, and all the install methods do something. | 10:19 |
| clumens | what are the main concerns. | 10:19 |
| clumens | question mark | 10:19 |
| notting | clumens: networking is better than friday? will poke. | 10:20 |
| clumens | notting: it's certainly better than thursday | 10:20 |
| wwoods | bug 461493 is annoying but easily worked around | 10:21 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=461493 medium, medium, ---, dcantrell@redhat.com, NEW, 'ksdevice=link' causes traceback | 10:21 |
| f13 | clumens: I'm mostly curious what we plan to target over the next day or so, given that we have to be ready to compose by Thursday in order to ship on time | 10:21 |
| clumens | i don't plan on doing anything except bugs | 10:21 |
| clumens | hans committed some iscsi stuff that'd get picked up if we rebuilt, and dlehman wants to get in a patch that redoes the encrypted passphrase UI | 10:22 |
| clumens | gets rid of the many passphrases, replaces it with a global one | 10:22 |
| f13 | ok, that's something I'd like to see built today if it's going to happen | 10:22 |
| clumens | the passphrase stuff? | 10:23 |
| f13 | clumens: yeah | 10:23 |
| wwoods | yeah, agreed | 10:23 |
| clumens | i'll say he's go for committing, as long as he promises he's not leaving town this week. | 10:24 |
| wwoods | dlehman and I talked about that earlier - reducing overall complexity is good. If it's going in, I'd like to see it built ASAP so we can get wider testing. | 10:24 |
| clumens | it's mostly minus signs | 10:24 |
| wwoods | sweet, sweet minus signs | 10:24 |
| clumens | i guess the major question mark is still networking. everything else seems reasonably solid, weirdo corner cases excepted. | 10:25 |
| f13 | clumens: can your team whip up a good set of release notes for beta concerning networking in anaconda? That's a fairly visible change don't wnat people to be filing bugs about missing config screens | 10:25 |
| clumens | yeah i'll ask david to write something up about it | 10:25 |
| clumens | where should they be posted? | 10:26 |
| f13 | that's a good question | 10:26 |
| wwoods | if there's a NM-in-anaconda feature page, that'd be ideal | 10:26 |
| f13 | yeah, that'd be a good start. | 10:26 |
| wwoods | otherwise, um | 10:26 |
| f13 | I think any release wiki page for beta would pull data from the feature pages | 10:26 |
| clumens | additionally does there need to be a release note talking about how you won't typically be prompted for installation source? | 10:26 |
| wwoods | f13: it will | 10:26 |
| f13 | clumens: that would be a good note too | 10:27 |
| wwoods | oh, I guess we could throw it on the (to-be-created) f10b installer test matrix page? | 10:27 |
| clumens | there's no feature page | 10:27 |
| clumens | for either | 10:27 |
| wwoods | jlaska: ping - do you have an empty template for http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora10Install/ somehere? | 10:28 |
| f13 | clumens: wow, that seems quite featurey to not have a page :/ | 10:28 |
| f13 | clumens: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Beta/ReleaseNotes | 10:29 |
| wwoods | oh nice | 10:30 |
| clumens | f13: it's been a feature forever, so that probably just slipped through the cracks | 10:30 |
| clumens | yeah we can add something there | 10:30 |
| f13 | ok, anything else regarding installer? | 10:32 |
| f13 | doesn't sound like it. | 10:32 |
| clumens | i don't have anything | 10:32 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - X | 10:32 | |
| f13 | ajax: please take the floor | 10:32 |
| ajax | OH NOES | 10:32 |
| ajax | so uh. intel has some weird thing where refresh rate drops through the floor, and we're not really sure why | 10:33 |
| ajax | airlied's been looking at it. i'm not sure how close he is to a solution. i'm tempted to back out the entirety of the intel drm patches, but i'm not even sure that'd be a fix. | 10:34 |
| f13 | this makes life pretty... interesting for people on intel kits | 10:34 |
| ajax | radeon+kms is still a little touchy on some hardware, but at least stabilizes itself if you say nomodeset on kcmdline, so, not as worried about that | 10:34 |
| f13 | it manifests itself in weird ways depending on teh app and could lead to a lot of misfiled bugs | 10:34 |
| ajax | everything else X-wise is in pretty good shape, afaict | 10:34 |
| ajax | but yeah, the intel thing. | 10:35 |
| f13 | ajax: how good do you feel about evdev (try 2)? | 10:35 |
| wwoods | is there a releasenote about, like, what hardware kms is currently enabled on (and how to disable/enable it) | 10:35 |
| f13 | are the things that caused us to rip it out last release mostly resolved? IE the bizarre keymappings | 10:35 |
| ajax | wwoods: should be. probably isn't. i can write one though, if we want one for the beta | 10:36 |
| ajax | f13: keymap stuff should be practically perfect in every way. i haven | 10:36 |
| ajax | 't seen any problems with it in ages. | 10:36 |
| f13 | where "ages" == a couple weeks (: | 10:36 |
| f13 | a few weeks back there was a rash of arrow keys doing wrong things people were reporting | 10:36 |
| f13 | like screenshot and such | 10:37 |
| jeremy | whot fixed up the few screwy things I was seeing there | 10:37 |
| f13 | ajax: I think notes for the beta should focus on what we want people to test in the beta | 10:37 |
| ajax | well there's an easy way to guarantee that won't happen, which is to hack the server to refuse to load kbd | 10:37 |
| wwoods | which definitely means: how do I know if modesetting is on? how can I turn it on if it's not? how do I turn it off if it misbehaves? | 10:38 |
| ajax | but i'd rather not do that; if there's still any keymap bugs, i want to know. i'm pretty confident they're hammered out now. | 10:38 |
| f13 | ajax: nod, that's great news | 10:38 |
| ajax | also it no longer crashes if you look at it funny, so, there's that. | 10:38 |
| f13 | ajax: so should we be looking for you or airlied or both to track the intel issue? | 10:39 |
| ajax | at this point i think it's both. airlied knows more about it but he's also at plumbers, so he's not exactly free. | 10:40 |
| ajax | you'd think he could hit an intelian over the head with a laptop until it worked... | 10:40 |
| f13 | he'd be close enough | 10:41 |
| f13 | if need be, I'll drive down there and bring a bat too | 10:41 |
| jeremy | you'd think he couldn't walk 3 feet without tripping over an intelian | 10:41 |
| ajax | yay attitude of violence | 10:42 |
| f13 | ok, so we'll track this issue to, as far as beta is concerned. | 10:42 |
| f13 | anything else on X? | 10:42 |
| ajax | think that's it | 10:43 |
| f13 | ok, next... | 10:45 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - Plymouth | 10:45 | |
| halfline | uh oh | 10:45 |
| f13 | halfline: can you give us a rundown on plymouth, as it relates to Beta? | 10:45 |
| halfline | yea sure | 10:45 |
| halfline | it has some issues with serial consoles right now | 10:45 |
| halfline | so if you do console=ttyS0 console=tty0 things don't behave right | 10:46 |
| halfline | there's about to be a bug filed about a superfluous password prompt popping up | 10:46 |
| halfline | in some cases when people have encrypted disks | 10:46 |
| halfline | not sure what that's about yet, since I just found out about it | 10:47 |
| halfline | it's also missing some finishing touches that will probably land after beta | 10:47 |
| halfline | just some bits to make the transition between plymouth and gdm really smooth | 10:47 |
| f13 | k | 10:47 |
| f13 | so barring any further bugs, we'd at most be looking for a fix for the superfluous prompting? | 10:48 |
| halfline | right, if i figure out what's going on with the superfluous prompting before beta goes out we could potnetially sneak it in. not a beta blocker by any means though | 10:48 |
| f13 | it'll just cause a high number of bugs filed, for values of "high" where encryption is involved. | 10:49 |
| halfline | well hard to say | 10:49 |
| halfline | since i don't even know the scope of teh problem yet | 10:50 |
| f13 | true | 10:50 |
| halfline | it's certainly not everyone seeing it | 10:50 |
| f13 | ok, anything else on plymouth? | 10:51 |
| halfline | not off the top of my head | 10:52 |
| halfline | we should | 10:52 |
| halfline | make sure we get the release notes updated to reflect the current state of things | 10:53 |
| halfline | for instance that "nomodeset" will disable modesetting | 10:53 |
| f13 | yeah, updating the release notes would be appreciated | 10:53 |
| f13 | ok | 10:53 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - Beta composes | 10:53 | |
| f13 | An updated pungi got tagged this morning, which should be "good" for making Beta | 10:54 |
| f13 | only minor changes, mostly API stuff | 10:54 |
| f13 | jeremy: is livecd-creator in a good state? | 10:54 |
| jeremy | f13: nothing broken afaik. I've been building a few random images, but no so much related to the beta specifically | 10:55 |
| f13 | k | 10:55 |
| f13 | We have a fuckload of "approved" spins this time around, so that'll be interesting. | 10:55 |
| f13 | including one that uses a tool we've never used before. | 10:55 |
| f13 | so I'm going to be running those through their paces over the next day or three | 10:57 |
| f13 | and doing test composes of content | 10:57 |
| f13 | I probably won't be able to do a whole lot of testing on my own, so I'm really looking to wwoods and co to nail that wiki grid down | 10:58 |
| f13 | speaking of... | 10:58 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - QA | 10:58 | |
| f13 | wwoods: can you take the floor for a few minutes? | 10:58 |
| * f13 taps on wwoods' mic | 11:00 | |
| wwoods | err uh | 11:01 |
| * wwoods cough | 11:01 | |
| wwoods | I'll talk to jlaska, we'll have a matrix up by the end of the day for coordinating beta testing | 11:01 |
| f13 | and some call to arms for testing? | 11:02 |
| wwoods | unless I'm really confused, Beta is a blocking freeze, so we can turn to the community to test against current Rawhide and consider that equivalent to Beta | 11:02 |
| f13 | yes, that is correct | 11:02 |
| wwoods | stuff that's media-specific will require either a) you-put-it-together pungi action or b) patience | 11:02 |
| poelcat | f13: any chance of putting out early torrent version for community testing? | 11:03 |
| wwoods | IIRC we've got an internal spin of the initial bits so probably I'll focus on getting RH internal people working on the media-specific stuff | 11:03 |
| f13 | poelcat: maybe? | 11:05 |
| wwoods | pre-beta torrents would be nice to have. at the very least, boilerplate instructions for building images | 11:05 |
| wwoods | or maybe jigdo stuff against alpha? | 11:05 |
| f13 | that won't help, resigned packages. | 11:07 |
| wwoods | anyway, prior to release we're mostly concerned with installer testing. functional testing is on the radar, of course, but it's much easier to get community participation on that | 11:07 |
| wwoods | f13: oh right. | 11:07 |
| * poelcat afk for a bit | 11:07 | |
| wwoods | anyway. F10Beta tracker: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=446447&hide_resolved=1 | 11:08 |
| wwoods | needs a good triaging | 11:08 |
| f13 | k | 11:08 |
| * mdomsch has been trying to close nastier FTBFS bugs on there | 11:09 | |
| wwoods | if you have updates for any of those, feel free to provide them; if there are major issues with F10Beta, please feel free to add those bugs | 11:09 |
| * f13 suddenly has an OHSHIT moment | 11:09 | |
| f13 | oh man. | 11:09 |
| notting | bear in the kitchen? | 11:10 |
| f13 | I think I just signed all the beta content with the F8 and 9 test key | 11:10 |
| f13 | not the f10 test key | 11:10 |
| wwoods | that's unfortunate! but not catastrophic.. right? | 11:11 |
| f13 | not catastrophic | 11:11 |
| jwb | that would be more of an "awww... crap." moment | 11:11 |
| f13 | although the mirrors might castrate me | 11:11 |
| jwb | they hate you for .newkey already | 11:11 |
| jwb | this is minor | 11:11 |
| f13 | jwb: this is actually more content than .newkey | 11:11 |
| f13 | a lot more | 11:11 |
| jwb | when you consider F8 and F9 combined? | 11:12 |
| notting | f13: oh phooey. i suppose the stock mash configs need updated | 11:12 |
| f13 | it's only f8/9 /updates/ thus far | 11:12 |
| jwb | f13, oh | 11:12 |
| f13 | vs all of dist-f10 | 11:12 |
| wwoods | speaking of configs - the kickstarts for creating Beta are the ones in fedora-release, right? | 11:13 |
| mdomsch | f13, you haven't pushed 10-Beta to the mirrors yet | 11:13 |
| mdomsch | you _could_ resign if you wanted to | 11:13 |
| * mdomsch ducks | 11:14 | |
| f13 | mdomsch: 10-beta == rawhide | 11:14 |
| f13 | mdomsch: and much of it /did/ get pushed to mirrors | 11:14 |
| mdomsch | ugg | 11:14 |
| f13 | yeah | 11:14 |
| f13 | this was... not the smartest thing I"ve ever done | 11:14 |
| f13 | wwoods: yes | 11:14 |
| f13 | er | 11:14 |
| f13 | wwoods: I'll have to verify that they match pungi and livecd stuff | 11:15 |
| f13 | wwoods: we need an updated fedora-release anyway for version number and keys | 11:15 |
| * f13 ponders restoring from a backup | 11:15 | |
| f13 | since it doesn't seem rsync is done yet to many places. | 11:16 |
| wwoods | f13: right. I'll assume that those kickstarts are close enough for now. | 11:16 |
| wwoods | so, yeah. test matrix will be at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora10Install/Beta RSN | 11:16 |
| wwoods | bug blocker list at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=446447&hide_resolved=1 | 11:17 |
| f13 | k | 11:17 |
| wwoods | we can discuss making torrents of test images public.. once we have some test images | 11:17 |
| f13 | anything else on QA? | 11:17 |
| wwoods | focus pre-release is installer / yum+PK - everything else (features/functional stuff) can be tested post-release | 11:18 |
| notting | f13: are you using stock mash configs or your own for rawhide | 11:19 |
| wwoods | #fedora-qa is always open for any further discussion of bug filing / testing stuff. And that's it. | 11:19 |
| f13 | notting: I haven't touched anything, so I'd assume stock. | 11:19 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - open floor | 11:20 | |
| notting | f13: or, it's in the script | 11:20 |
| f13 | notting: I don't recall futzing with mash configs in teh buildrawhide script, I think it comes from the rpm | 11:20 |
| f13 | anywho, we're 20 minutes over, any open discussion on beta? | 11:20 |
| notting | f13: you want rawhide to trust new 8&9 key by default? | 11:23 |
| f13 | yeah, 8&9, and the 10 keys | 11:24 |
| f13 | ok, looks like no open issues. | 11:27 |
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